Bonus- Katelyn

In this heartfelt episode, Katelyn shares the story of her father Rick, exploring his life, legacy, and the profound impact he had on her and her family. We discuss grief, gratitude, and the ways loved ones continue to show up in our lives beyond physical presence.

Here is a credible link to learn more about MSA 
https://missionmsa.org/

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:36

Hey everyone. Welcome back to Grief and Gratitude. It's Mandy and your co-host, Crystal.

SPEAKER_00 0:42

Hi, everyone. Thank you for joining us again. We are here today with a special guest, Caitlin. She learned of our podcast through hearing another story and had reached out to us. She's here today to talk about her father, Rick. Caitlin, thank you for being here. Oh, great to be here. Thanks for having me. Of course. And so we're going to give you this time and space to tell us about your father.

SPEAKER_01 1:10

Oh, wonderful. I I appreciate this. Um, my father was someone that was so special to me. And um when I've I've leaned on podcasts in the past, and when I came across yours, I loved the theme of grief and gratitude. And that's really struck, struck me lately. And um, I want to be able to share him and my story and um the better place that I'm at today, and hopefully connect with someone else that may be feeling lost and scared and sad, and they might be able to resonate with my story. Um so yeah, I'll get started. Um, so my father uh was born in from uh Boston. Um he grew up in a pretty big Italian family. Uh he loved his his parents. He was one of four brothers that he adored and was uh felt protective of. Uh he and my mom met in high school. Uh he was a veteran. Uh after high school, he went to uh the Mediterranean Sea and was on an aircraft carrier uh for a few years. And during the Vietnam War, um he was on the USS Forrestall. And my mom and him would write letters to each other. And when he got back from the Navy, they I fell in love even more and started their story of uh being married. And uh he was a very loving husband. Um he absolutely adored my mom and he had a they had a very profound, deep love and respectful relationship, and they often would call each other soulmates and life partners, even before that kind of term became popular, because they really believed that their relationship was a partnership in order to be successful, and it was something that my brother and my sister and I, I think, at least for me and I know for them, that they sought out in their own relationships because we had this, they were were modeling it for many years. Um he was a dreamer and an adventurer and an entrepreneur, even though I know he wouldn't refer to himself that way, but he was a photographer when he was when he got back from the Navy and he took pictures of ballet dancers in Boston and models that were starting out, and he had just a keen eye for nature, and I think he loved that connection to people. Uh, him and my mom opened up a business and they were chefs at a restaurant, um, and many adventures from there. He often would make her learn to scuba dive and uh learn sailing on Lake Champlain and lots of little things like that that I just really admired and thought he was cool. Um and then most importantly to me, he was a my dad and he was my friend. Um and I just miss him terribly. Uh, he had an incredible work ethic. Uh he loved to read and research something. Like if he didn't know about a topic, he would just research and learn about it. And he had lots of hobbies from like tying flies for fly fishing to training his dog Sam to gardening and baking bread. And he was a carpenter. And him and my mom often would renovate their homes and he would do the woodworking in the house, and he was just a lot to like admire. Um, and he was everything like a dad should be. Growing up, you know, he was someone that we he demanded like us to work hard in school and be respectful to my mom and finish our food at the dinner table. And then as we grew older, he was, you know, like our financial advisor and our cheerleader, and would, you know, play catch with us in the yard and cheer for us at our sporting events, um, use our manners. I mean, those are things that I just remember and didn't yet quite understand, but the foundation of so many more things to come. And he he wasn't a chatty person, but he but when he spoke, people listened. Like his words had a lot of weight. And I always, I always respected that. Um I was just thinking of he used to take us hiking for mushrooms, uh, just an odd hobby, but a common one in Vermont. Um just so much that I liked about him. He taught us to ice skate and to fish and to cook and to drive. Um, just a big part of my life. Um, and as I got older, I would enjoy, you know, watching movies with him and talking about our similar interests and going to photography galleries together. Um I just looked forward to doing that for a long time. Um, he was, you know, he was my friend, not only my dad, but just someone I truly enjoyed as company. Um and he was really proud of us kids. Um yeah. So I mentioned that him and my mom would uh go on adventures, and it it wasn't unheard of that they would go for bike rides. Um, growing up in southern Vermont, we lived close to the New York border, and it's beautiful countryside, rolling hills and uh, you know, dirt roads that are parallel to the river and covered bridges, and they often would bike ride um, you know, 30 miles, 15 miles one way and 15 miles back, and it was their form of exercise and what they would do on the weekends, you know, after a long week of work, and it was a way to spend time together. Um, and on this fateful day, he um he fell off his bike. Um luckily it was in, it was in um near their home and it was near neighbors, and people came out to help him and my mom. Um it was such a profound accident in the sense of he fell off his bike and you know one of his ribs had punctured his lung and he had broke many ribs. Um he was airlifted to Albany uh Med and he was in the ICU for about two weeks. And it was it was an intense time. Um I had a nine-month-old baby at the time. It was around Father's Day, uh his birthday as well, and it was just it was intense. We didn't understand what had happened and, you know, why such a such a profound accident um and such trauma to his body. Um he was working for the post office at the time. He had uh he had worked his way up. He was a letter carrier when I was a kid, and then had become a postmaster uh at various post offices in Vermont. And um he had taken time off work to to get better. I don't think he ever truly went back to work. Um such a traumatic event, breaking that many ribs and um being in the ICU and having a trach put in and um just the trauma of it all, it took time. And he, I believe, was 60 or 61. Uh so it was, you know, as we age, it's just harder to kind of bounce back from situation like that. Over the course of the next year, he had been to countless doctor's appointments. Um, my mom, having uh been a nurse in her career, um, was always by his side, not only as a support person and caregiver, but understanding like medical terminology and knowing what questions to ask. She was always there at appointments. Um, and it just didn't feel like he was getting better. And a lot of the doctors had said that, you know, it's just gonna take time, which is understandable. Like he had had such a traumatic event and had surgery and metal put in for some of his ribs to be replaced. Um he never quite fully gained like walking like he could and running like he was able to run um and get on a bike again. Um, and some days he wouldn't be able to like write his name uh and yeah, trouble walking with his dog Sam. And then other days he he was able to. Um, so it was interesting things that he was experiencing. And then uh fast forward just a few more months, um February, it was a warm February in 2017, and he must have felt good because he he went out with his dog Sam for a walk and he passed away on that walk. And um we didn't know at the time, but he well, I guess I'll start with not only was that devastating because we just didn't we didn't understand how such a kind of like healthy guy could just be gone. Um you know, it was such a pivotal moment in my mom and my brother and my sister and my wife at that time. My mom and him were getting prepared to retire and live in their final home that they had found and renovated in Maine. Um, my sister and I had become newly moms. My brother had some career trajectory that was taking off. And I don't none of us just imagine these important moments not having, you know, our favorite person around. Um so navigating those things over time has just been hard and was really, really difficult. Um I remember my mom talking to the medical examiner shortly after my dad passed, and the medical examiner had ruled my father's death um as a heart attack, and he they had labeled it as he had an enlarged heart, which at first we kind of like giggled about because we thought that was just so special. Like, of course, he's got an enlarged heart. Like, that's so fitting. Um, but the scientific part of it was that like his heart was stressed, or and my mom, it was like a red flag to her after after being at all these different various medical appointments. He had recently had um a stress test done, and his heart was healthy. And so to her, that was like, oh no, this can't be. Like she must have explained to the medical examiner you know, what they've been through, their journey over the last year and a half, and did convince them to uh like reevaluate. And a couple months later, the medical examiner called her up and said, you know, like, you're right, your husband had um a rare disease called MSA, and multiple systems atrophy is what it stands for. And there was a protein of this disease, this built-up of this protein in your husband's brain. And I think in that moment, it was kind of like a relief had washed over all of us, like, oh my gosh, like he was right. He felt something wasn't right. She did too. We just couldn't pinpoint it. Um, so it it definitely gave us pause. Um and after learning more about it, it's a pretty, pretty sad disease. It's it's rare, it's fatal, there's no cure. It's uh neurodegenerative and degenerative, and what that means is that um, you know, it impacts his whole body, hence the name. Um and it presents itself similarly to like Parkinson's and ALS, but unlike them, it's not hereditary. Um, and it's built up of this of this protein um in his brain nerve cells, and it causes them to like misfire, which is why these symptoms were happening, like walking and handwriting and even talking was a struggle. Um I think for a long time we just had remembered him. When we when we would remember him, we would think of him as healthy and running around with his grandchildren or teaching them to fish or walking on the beach with my mom. And when as we learned more about the disease, those things wouldn't have happened. If he had lived longer, he wouldn't have been able to do those things. Uh, it would have been ex, it would have been impossible. And that was kind of the start of our gratitude journey journey because he wouldn't have wanted that as much as my mom would have loved to have cared for him. Uh, that would have been a a struggle. And right there in itself, it was a blessing that he was saved some of that pain and in lot and and struggle if if he had lived uh much longer than that. Um so we we give pause to that. Um we kind of remind ourselves that he he was he was saved in many regards. Um passing away in the in the manner that he did out with his dog in his favorite park. Um it's kind of beautiful in itself. Um and then navigating over the years, I've been just trying to hang on to those those moments of gratitude and remembering everything that he taught me, whether directly or indirectly, um really really makes me happy, I guess. And but getting there has taken time. Um he used to say a lot, stay the course. And I know that's something that my mom held on to as well. Um, you know, after he died, it's not like my brother and my sister and I, my mom, our lives stopped. It's like I think we all would have loved to have just had it stop and kind of be there, but for each other in a way, but we all live in different states and we had young children and and jobs. And in a way, I think we look back in our that was that was save saving for us. Um having children to get up to in the morning. And um, I know my mom's job was life-saving for her, and she was able to go to work and she wanted to end her career on a good note, and it was still her goal to end up in Maine, and she just had to, she had to get there, she had to stay the course. Um and that helped us for a little while. Um and seeing seeing my dad come home all those years after a long day and persevering and being present for his family and being a loving husband, he he modeled that for me and my siblings. And I looking back, I think that that helped me as well. He wouldn't have wanted me to crumble, and he would have wanted me to to keep going. And that's easier said than done having some distance from that, and it wasn't that easy, but reflecting on that now, I'm I'm just so grateful for everything that he had taught us and taught me. Um and I I think there isn't a day that goes by I don't think of him or talk about him to my children. Um and I just don't want him to be forgotten. And being such a wonderful man in my life, I'm so grateful he was my dad. I don't know where I'd be without him. And that's something I just want to hold, you know, hold on to.

SPEAKER_00 19:47

Um Caitlin, I d just want to jump in now if I can and say thank you for sharing, right? I am struck by who your father was to you, right? I not to say it's rare, but it can be to have all those layers of a father that not only cares for you, but models for you and teaches you and shows love through the way they love your mother, like that is yeah, such a blessing that you got to experience. Um and when you speak to you know what occurred, can I just ask um the accident looking back? Do you is it he had this disease previously, but it wasn't right? So it's almost like hindsight's 2020. Um and how amazing your mom with her skill set to push, because you may not have known that, right? To have that full story. Um, was it from that point when he had had fallen, he just never came back to where he was. Yeah. Physically.

SPEAKER_01 21:17

You said a couple of things. Uh yes, my uh MSA has like a seven to nine year kind of life sentence from the onset of the first symptom. And my mom was able to pinpoint, like, oh my gosh, it was like seven years to the day from when the first symptom they noticed. Um and once we found that out, we were thinking, well, maybe that's what caused him to fall off the bike. And, you know, something so natural, and it's not like he was going super fast. He was in town, he was almost home. And maybe it was just this like jerk reaction that caused him to fall. Um yeah, there was another thing you said in there. Um yeah, he never fully regained, like he was there like mentally, but physically his body was was failing over time. And I remember because there had been just some time that I would pass living a little away from them, and I would just notice like the change in his voice, like something I was like, oh, interesting. Like his voice just sounds different. And then other days it would, it would come back. Um, my mom noticed the handwriting right away. Um, and I yeah, and he was and he was falling a lot at home too. Um and those were just all symptoms of it. Um one of the things that we find gratitude in as well is during that time that he was recovering at home, he found the house that my mom lives in now. And over the course of that year and a half that we had like extra with him, we almost think of this as like extra time from when the accident happened to when he passed, they were able to renovate that house together. And there's pieces of him very much there. Um, and we were able to get like one summer in Maine with him, all of us together. And now she's there full time. But there's a blessing in that as well, because if uh I don't know that he would have found the house if he hadn't been at home recovering. Too.

SPEAKER_00 23:51

It's definitely something I think when we reach gratitude, right? Because it comes and goes too, at least for me, it it flows, right? Some days more a grief day, some days more a gratitude day. But to look sometimes back, like you said, it's like the perfect storm or the perfect way, right? He something occurred which led him to rest in some ways to finding the things where I feel like we we can't script it, right? It's almost like something scripted for us.

SPEAKER_02 24:29

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 24:32

Um can I ask for you? Um I know your dad shows up and is around, but what does that look like or feel like in terms of um your beliefs around where he is now or how he continues to show up for you?

SPEAKER_01 24:51

My children play hockey and we're in ranks a lot. And I remember the first time being in a rink and getting my kids on the ice, I felt like it almost took my breath away of like pain. I just couldn't believe that my dad wasn't gonna be there to see them play or and then fast forward time, it's comforting he taught me to ice skate and it's it's like full circle. I I've I I would love to just believe that he's there and he's able to to watch them. Um and when I need time, like alone to kind of regroup myself and spending time in nature and taking pictures of things that I think he might find um beautiful as well, um, doing things that we would have done together in a way to honor him, eating chocolate ice cream on his birthday, because that was his favorite. Um yeah, little things like that. So has that changed? Has your um, I don't know, spiritual belief become stronger since he's passed? Like do you see signs or feel signs from him? Um, or did you always feel that there's something else? I'd I'd love to I'd love to believe that you know, we see our loved ones uh together or or again in the future. Um I used to dream about him a lot after he passed. Um I don't always, but when I do, it's like I hang on to it um as long as possible. Um I wouldn't say my beliefs have changed, just I look for signs. I do, and it's like I can I can just feel his presence, or when I look at my children and I I look for him, or my nieces and nephews and see pieces of him in them. It's it's beautiful. It's it's like of course he's around. He's through that, he's he's here with that through through us, right? Living or his legacy. Um my my son said this to me recently, though, because he he's nine and my father's been gone for nine years now. And he's my son said something so comforting to me that it stuck with me. He he's so sweet, so cute. He said that, you know, mom, Papa and I are like the same age. Maybe he he's living on through one of my friends, and I get to be best friends with him. And I thought that. Oh my gosh, that is absolutely like I hope, I hope that is so true. And because you would have been best buds. I think kids are, God, they can be so healing. It's exactly what we needed. So I'd love to believe that.

SPEAKER_00 28:16

The purity of it, yeah, the innocence of children, I think what still gives me hope because they haven't been jaded by right, all these thoughts and ideas and science and right, kind of man-made spirituality and religion, like they're just that innocent brain of knowing. And so, I don't know. For me, I think even your son, right? There's like something that comes together where he was able to provide you this comfort. And so your dad through him or however it lands, right? It's really beautiful. Even within the legacy you speak of, of course, your father is within you and who and how you are. He imprinted on you in such a way that you are continuing to live your life with your dad in who you are. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 29:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 29:23

How has it been observing um your mom? You know, when I looked at, which we'll share the pictures you had shared, um thinking of being a child observing their mom, right? Losing their love and their partner, and that the hope they had together to retire together. How has whether it be grief or gratitude, how has that shown up in your relationship with your mom and the way you two are able to navigate this journey?

SPEAKER_01 29:59

Oh a part of me will always feel heartbroken for her. She's as much as he was wonderful, she is equally as lovely. Uh admired her tremendously. Um not seeing my mom like smile at him or be smiled at, you know, he he just made her light up. And so not not seeing her like that is heartbreaking. She deserves that. She lights up around us kids and grandkids, but I know there's a part of her that will just never be whole, if that makes sense. Um and also my father and her, you know, bicker like adorably, but like they were best friends, so they lived together forever. So just not having that person that was like her person is is unfair. Um, and they would dance and play games, and I will be forever sad that that's been taken away from her. Um but her and I have a very kindred relationship where for many, many years, when we would see each other, we would just cry. We would just hold space for each other, and I think that was really therapeutic for each other. Um, and I've noticed that that's lessened. You know, we we look at each other and we have like our sad moments, but um yeah, that I think I know we've helped each other. Um that I hold on to that. Yeah. Do you think um since your dad passed that it's brought you and your siblings closer together? You know, we were we were close before, but there's certainly like a like an unspoken kind of rule. Like we we all imagine we live in different states, but when we get together, it's like a a hole that's been filled, as I mentioned, like a hole not being there, but it's something like it, we just feel like home together. Um and certainly going through not only the traumatic accident and then losing him. Yeah, we're if one of us calls each other, it's like we pick up. There's no, we're yeah, we're there for each other in that sense. If anything, it's gotten stronger, but we were strong before too. Um, we all processed his death differently. Um, and I think we've learned to respect those boundaries, and I'm a lot more open and want to chat and cry and uh and they're a little more private, and that's okay. Um yeah.

SPEAKER_00 33:07

And and speaking of that, I think is important, right? Identifying that we do have different ways of mourning, of processing, of experiencing, right? What is might be comforting to me might not be comforting to you, and vice versa. So how to allow that, right? Um, is there anyone or anything that if you look back, right, in your journey you found helpful? Did anyone say or do anything, or did you find anything that was like, huh, in those moments either brought you relief or peace or were useful to you?

SPEAKER_01 33:55

Yeah, interesting. Short answer, no. I was I was definitely in a space where I didn't want advice from other people, even though I knew that their interest was in the best interest. But I struggled with that. Um, you know, I remember, and I know people are doing their best, but you know, some people would say, oh, you know, at least you got him for this many years. I only had my dad for this many, or, you know, all kinds of things. And it was like, there is just no comparison. Like we just, it's not a competition. It's not, it's I just had to like really turn inward. And and I think that's where my mom, why my mom and I connected so much because we we were similar in how we were dealing with it and why we leaned on each other. Um, but I certainly had sought out like therapy and and books and movies and music that made me feel things. I just I knew I needed to really feel, and yeah, that was the way I I needed to that resonated with me the best.

SPEAKER_00 35:15

And we've heard that before. I remember it in um Dan's story some episodes back speaking of his loss, it was the not comparing, right? Because even the comparing, it's kind of like it adds this layer, whereas a person grieving, the comparison, you want to be like, no, no, yeah, it's hard too, right? And you have to navigate too much. So I think it just gives it speaks to the fact that it is okay to see someone in grief or in loss and just be there. Just ask. Um, I mean, I would say I prefer someone trying, attempting to console me, and it falls flat because it I don't know. Some, you know, and I would say to anyone, don't take it personal if you're trying to comfort a person in grief and they react right in such a way. Um, but it's okay to just listen. Yes, just say, I can't imagine. I am hearing you. Is there something I can do? Right? Asking a question rather than assuming you know how to fix it because you can't, or asking, tell me a little bit about him.

SPEAKER_01 36:40

Yeah. That's my favorite thing. Me too. When people ask, tell me about your son, and I'm like, okay, how long you got? Um totally agree with you.

SPEAKER_02 36:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 36:54

And even years later, if someone wants or brings it up, it's like I don't want them to don't worry if I'm sad or happy. It's the fact that you've asked me about them is so me much more meaningful than not saying anything. Um, it's like people are can be afraid or don't want to upset you. And it's like, uh, I have been upset. Like I've been every side which way upset. It's a gift to talk about them. But also, as the person who goes through it, um my son passed less than two years ago. And I still feel I talk about them all the time. Um but last night, I don't know why, I just felt like I asked my sister-in-law, I was like, Do I make you uncomfortable? Do I talk about them too much? And, you know, like me worrying about other people being uncomfortable. And I think a lot of us do that. And so we don't talk about them.

SPEAKER_02 38:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 38:06

Um, but she's like, no, no, talk all you want. I was like, okay, thanks. I will. I will. That's so true. I again, I think that's why my my mom and I connected early on was that we we knew we could just, yeah, it wouldn't even be a question. We could talk and be there for each other.

unknown 38:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 38:29

But that's where this space came from, right? Creating a podcast to me to be given, hey, you have an hour for it to be all about this person you loved and who's loved you and connects like it's yours and you're choosing to use it. And so you don't have to wonder, like you don't have to wonder, Caitlin, if me and Mandy are here to hear it, because it is exactly why we're here now to see rich through your eyes, to experience your dad, to experience your journey.

SPEAKER_01 39:06

That's so special. So special. I think that's the the point of humans, us to connect with each other. I really do. And I really appreciate it. I I love that you've given space so that I can talk about him. And I feel like I'm blanking and want to share more, but there's always more, I'll tell you most of the time.

SPEAKER_00 39:32

Everyone seems to be like, yeah, I think about and that's why we've even in part twos. If anyone wants a part two, we keep doing them now. Um tell me for your dad, just so I well, I saw the pictures, and I can as you explain him, I'm like, that makes perfect sense. You can see it in the expression in the ways of the way he's holding your mom. But explain him. You say he wasn't a huge talker, but when he spoke, people listened. Like, give him a little, give me a little more of just your dad. And grateful, so grateful for him.

SPEAKER_01 40:10

Um a couple of things. So I mentioned he worked for the post office for many years, and I I think he treated his employees almost like they were, you know, family, his children in a way. He was being a leader, he was teaching them, how holding them to high expectations. And I know how much he um adored many of them, and many of them came uh to his funeral. It was a packed house, like standing room only, which was so special that people came near and far to be with us. I remember one Christmas, he um, so he most he would work. I mean, most post office employees work over the holidays, right? They're it's like a very busy time to get our packages delivered. And there was a young man working with him that didn't have a place to go for Christmas dinner, and it was no question he was coming to our house. And it was he, I remember him, my dad, taking us kids aside and saying, like, there's gonna be a person at our house for dinner, and I want I want you to make him feel welcomed. And it was like, that was it. We were like, okay, like no problem. Um, but that was like who he was. If he had more, he was gonna share it. And he couldn't imagine this young man not having a place to go on Christmas. Um, and I I was just kind of a little bit of who he was.

SPEAKER_00 41:54

Um it it speaks to the heart of him, right? Especially around I think holidays and things. Some people just have it, it's like their way and they orchestrate it in such a way, and it's you know, and that's fine, but to be able to consider the blessing you have to go home for him to his wife and his his children, grant and family, and see someone without that, and just of course you would include them and for your to do that and to share that right with you. And clearly he he raised you in that way because you all didn't question, right?

SPEAKER_01 42:38

You're like, oh yeah, more the merrier. That was a common phrase in our house, the more the merrier. Um and also in your pictures, you have not aged.

SPEAKER_00 42:54

You're like little, under what, like five or something. I'm like, this is her.

SPEAKER_01 43:03

My son said the same thing. They're like, Mom, you look the same. Oh, that's good. Good Italian jeans, I guess. Italian jeans in the pictures are beautiful, and they'll share those on page. Um, he was jolly, he smiled in every picture. It was something we like noticed right away. He just he was a happy guy.

SPEAKER_00 43:32

Um and you mentioned him being like an entrepreneur. How how even the pictures and how he chose to do that. Like, how did that come to be?

SPEAKER_01 43:46

Did he oh yeah, he I didn't share any of his uh early works, but we had found like when we were cleaning out my his and then my mom's home to move her to Maine, we came across this beautiful, like just box of beautiful photos that he had taken when he was in his like 20s. And um he had like designed his business card and um yeah, it just really he was really creative in that sense. Um he probably got out of it just when him and my mom got married and wanted to start a family, and it might not have been the you know lucrative business. He was smart like that. Oh, I gotta this will become a hobby. I can't. Um, you know, that's a tough job. But um, you know, that was another thing that they encouraged each other. They were the type of couple that, you know, my mom wanted went back to school. Um, I think she was in her 50s and to get her degree. And he was like, Yeah, do it. And, you know, for her, for him to want to like go sailing and be like, Nan, you're Nan, you're coming. Um, it was like, okay, let's do this. I mean, that was like their attitude. They just respected and lifted each other up like that. Um, and I've been reflecting lately, gosh, how blessed, how grateful I am for them. Because I think as kids and adults, the best gift that you can give from your get from your parents is seeing how much they love and respect one another over things, over, and I've just been thinking about that a lot lately with my own children. And, you know, if I if they can love and respect me as much as I did my dad, then man, I've done a good job.

SPEAKER_00 45:58

Yeah. Absolutely. The in the work I do, right? I work um psychotherapy, and the number one question I ask is always like, what if it was your parents, for example, right? What was your relationship with them and and what did you feel was expected of you to be loved to identify if they understood unconditional love? But you also find how people choose people, whether it be a friendship or a partner, is based on that beautiful, almost feels rare example, just because you lived it, right? As a child, you were able to observe two people that loved each other, that also wanted to see the other thrive and continue and be curious in life and like it just is an instilled in you, not by a book, not by words, but by an example.

SPEAKER_02 46:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 47:00

Do you feel you, and I imagine you do, right? You parent and you love in such a way based off of how you saw and experienced your dad's love.

SPEAKER_01 47:14

Yes, very, very much. And I think that's where I'm at a grateful heart today. And like you said, it's kind of comes in waves or a circle. Some days are heavy on grief, and other days are heavy on gratitude, and today's a good day on the gratitude. Um absolutely. I reflect on that a lot. And I don't think he would have given himself enough credit for that. And if anything, that's something I wish I could tell him was that man, you did such a good job of that. If that's that's what I've taken away from our relationship, that is that is what my life it's like been all about. And I feel very, I have so much gratitude for that, for him.

SPEAKER_00 48:07

Yeah. From loss, um, we also I think learn to share more, right? Where you speak to your dad, you he wouldn't, he may not even know to the extent, right, of how much he impacted you. But for I think now today, I say more to others. Like if I'm really so proud of you, or I think so highly of you, or you've provided something for me, something I look back and I I wish I would have said to my sister, it just feels like it's known, right? And life as we age and have children and do things, we're like, huh, my dad or mom or right, caregiver this thing, and I want them to know. Yeah. And so to give it more, right? Um, and you can tell your dad, you can still tell your dad in any form, right? You you do you speak to your dad? Do you journal to your dad? Like, is there a way you still kind of connect and share those things, even if it's not physically with him here?

SPEAKER_01 49:16

I have pictures of him all over the house, like almost in every room, just like some of the ones I've shared with you all. And they're I definitely like smile at them or they make me happy. I feel like he is there with us, celebrating with us, you know, on occasions. And absolutely, it's like I'll I'll talk to those photos, whether in my head or out loud, as if like, yeah, he's there. Um, I even have one in my car, and uh yeah, I love being surrounded by him. That's something I've just really like have leaned on for sure. Um I even have some pieces of clothing of his, um, a sweater that had shrunk, uh, but it fits me perfectly. So it's it's something I I enjoy wearing in the winter time. Yeah, I'm I'm definitely someone that just needed to wrap myself with pieces of him that I can talk to and and smile at and cry at and yeah. Beautiful. And how long did it take you to get to the gratitude stage? You know, I was thinking that it was it was years. Um I knew right away that he was special and like what we had was special, but it took a long time, I would say very recently, where I'm able to put more gratitude than the grief. Um preparing for this was really I was really sad. I wasn't, I think we had talked, like I wasn't sure I'd be able to kind of get through. Um but it's it's so wonderful to to talk about him and to reminisce. And um he did make such an impact on so many people's lives. And and as you can see in the photos, he just he meant a lot to people, and he I just would I want that to be shared.

unknown 51:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 51:35

Share him with everybody else. Yeah, yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_00 51:41

Well, thank you so much, Caitlin, for finding the time, right, and creating the time. It it can be a lot to lead up to it, and I hope that you are able to kind of prepare yourself in such a way and also prepare the day, right, for after so you can sit in in this experience and how you shared your father and the reflection of it. Um I am grateful for you. I'm grateful for who your dad was for you. He really sounds like an incredible man, an incredible father and person. He does.

SPEAKER_01 52:25

Yeah. Yes. Yeah. Thank you both so much for this. It was it's helpful. Um, leading up to his birthday and Father's Day. It's it's a tough month.

SPEAKER_00 52:38

And the body remembers. I even where we can feel grief and gratitude always, at least for me, I found around certain times, right? It's like within ourselves. It's held within us and it and it comes out in such a way. I hope this space allowed you to really acknowledge it and celebrate your father with his birthday. It was June 22nd, correct? That's correct.

SPEAKER_02 53:11

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 53:12

For his birthday and for Father's Day.

SPEAKER_01 53:14

And we'll share him with our listeners and they'll get to learn about him too.

SPEAKER_02 53:20

Thank you both.

SPEAKER_00 53:21

Thank you so much. And so we will have your episode will be out. We'll do um a bonus episode around Father's Day so people can hear about your father. And um we'll just thank you.

SPEAKER_01 53:45

Thank you.