Episode 16-Crystal and Mandy chat

In this episode of the Grief and Gratitude podcast, hosts Crystal and Mandy discuss the complexities of navigating grief, particularly around significant dates like Mother's Day. They share personal experiences and insights on how to cope with loss while also celebrating life. The conversation transitions into a deeper exploration of their backgrounds, the purpose behind their podcast, and the importance of creating a safe space for sharing stories of grief and gratitude. They emphasize the value of community support and the healing power of storytelling.

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:00

Hi everyone, this is Crystal with Grief and Gratitude Podcast. I'm here, of course, with my co-host Mandy. We are back after taking a week off to just check back in with our viewers and to touch a bit on who we are and also the holiday that just passed. Yesterday was uh Mother's Day, and I know from some of our guests and from um Mandy's experience of losing her son and why we have this podcast, it can be a very challenging day to navigate. I wanted to create a space here to allow Mandy and also listeners to identify those feelings and also the fact it's okay, right, to just not even want that day. Um Mandy, could you share with us um what that experience was like for you yesterday and knowing that you also have two children here?

SPEAKER_00 1:08

Yeah, hey everyone. Um Mother's Day, this was my second Mother's Day um without Declan here. Um and I will say, much like grief, it kind of ebb and flows. Some some holidays, some birthdays, some um anniversaries are I want to celebrate, I want to get a cake, I want to do all the things. And then other days, I just w don't want to do anything. I want to sit on the couch and watch TV and just not think about things. Um and I don't remember, I think last year we actually went out to eat and tried to make it normal um because it was the first time. But this year, um I just wasn't feeling it. So and it's hard to, like you said, because there are other children. So um I obviously try to stay positive and not get too down for them to see. They also aren't dumb and know uh the situation and um how I feel. And you know, Finn is four, and anytime I cry, he will always say, Oh, do you miss Declan? And I'll say, Yeah, I miss Declan. And he'll be like, I miss him too, but he's with us, he's still with us, and he always says he's still with us. So uh oh, and then he says, and Hank's with us too. Hank was our dog. Um, and Ben didn't even know Hank, but he's heard stories, so he says Hank is with us too. So I'll believe that too. Um but yeah, no, I think I think it is okay to just do what you feel. Don't feel pressured to do anything. Michael was really good about not pushing anything on me, asking me what I wanted to do, giving me my space. And so it was kind of just another day.

SPEAKER_01 3:34

Would you agree, Mandy? So Michael being Mandy's partner, that how he kind of engaged you felt appropriate, right? He didn't go into the day with like, well, you said you would do this or that, or trying to create an expectation, but he's like understanding of the highs and lows, right? And that your mind may change and not even you might have a plan the night before and wake up and it's completely changed. And that feels really valuable in a partner.

SPEAKER_00 4:09

Yeah, and he he really is, and I will say that that um it hasn't always been that way, but he, you know, it's a learning process. It's still very early. Uh, like I said, it's the second year. Um, Declan's birthday, Michael's birthday just happens to be the day after Declan's birthday, so it's kind of hard to celebrate and then, you know, to be all sad and then be happy the next day. And so we kind of experienced that this year, um, and discussed that going forward, um, he would really just let me do what I need to do. And if we made plans, it's okay to not do them. And if I want to be alone, it's okay. And so I think that was really helpful. Um, and that's what he did. So it was perfect.

SPEAKER_01 5:13

Yeah, and in some instances, we we don't have someone who is understanding. So what I would suggest is you know what you need, right? And you as best you can create that space to get what you need. Um, I would encourage people who um feel bad or guilty or people pleasers, are worried about the other, right, living individuals in their lives, that they find a way to to provide themselves grace and carve out the time they need. Um, because if you don't do it, you're gonna continue each year, each anniversary, each challenging time, not allowing yourself to feel your pain or your grief, right? And it's actually much harder to access gratitude, right? If we ignore or push or put aside our grief to please other people.

SPEAKER_00 6:10

Well, and then the whole time you're doing whatever you're not wanting to do and thinking like, I don't want to be here, I don't want to do this, and it puts you in a bad mood and you're not fun to be around. You might not, you might as well not have gone. So, so yeah, I think that is um pretty important.

SPEAKER_02 6:29

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 6:30

Uh, so I think next we wanted to talk just a little bit about who we are, so you know a little bit more about your hosts and also really about the purpose of the podcast for us.

SPEAKER_00 6:45

So we're getting down to the nitty-gritty.

SPEAKER_01 6:48

We're getting right down to the nitty-gritty to the good time. We're not gonna tell too many stories because about Mandy and I back in the day, because uh gosh.

SPEAKER_00 6:59

We don't need to bring up old police records.

SPEAKER_01 7:02

Yeah, we don't need to bring up some things we did, right? With our 16, 17, 18-year-old uh brains navigating the world, Mandy and I definitely um really experience life together. And I think why our our bond is so strong and we're still here, right? 25-ish years later doing this is because we created such such a foundation seeing each other through, right? Um graduating high school, for example, not easy for either of us, but we made it the end. Um but I would say when I think and we had fun while doing we had a lot of fun. I absolutely we living downtown in Burlington, Vermont, right? Running the streets, just just finding trouble every which way, music.

SPEAKER_00 7:56

Our rent was like $600 a month. Crazy. Total, total was $600.

SPEAKER_01 8:02

We split, right? With and with my twin sister, who's who's past now, and I I think I spoke of it before, like Jen, bless her heart, like such a goody to shoe, like first year of college. I always remember her in her bed with all of her notebooks and books out, and she would just she was a people pleaser. Like, can you all just keep it down while we were in trouble? We were having fun on a Monday at 4 a.m. Yes. Uh I mean, we really did have a good time. Um, and we've seen each other through ups and downs, we've seen each other through relationships and hardships. Um, and yeah, here we are.

SPEAKER_00 8:45

All the times I drove to New York to visit you. Oh my god.

SPEAKER_01 8:48

Many, many times. Yeah. We lived together. And then when I was in New York uh for college, Mandy would come down pregnant. I remember you coming down pregnant a few times. And then when you first had Evan and his favorite movie was Finding Nemo, and we would set him up on the pillow and just like put on Finding Nemo. Oh yeah. Yeah, it was a good time. Now, in um in my world, I'm the executive director and founder of an organization, uh, mental health and work within the criminal legal system. I bridge the criminal legal system with the mental health field, do a lot of work um with people who have very little uh creating release plans and community plans. I have my two girls that are one just turned 11 and one will be 17 um in August. And otherwise, yeah, it's just the day to day, right? Pretty thought we wouldn't be here. Yeah. Who would have thought? Um, Mandy, you want to tell us a little bit? Mandy has told me what she does like a handful of times, and I still don't get it, but I feel like it has something to do with commercials. Is that accurate?

SPEAKER_00 10:05

So uh well, I'm from Vermont. I moved to North Carolina in 2018, and I've been here ever since. And when I was in Vermont, I did mostly like legal work, but when I got to North Carolina there, I just kind of took the first job that I could find um at Abbott Exchange, and that's where I have been for almost eight years, I want to say. Um, but I can't really say exactly what I do because I do either. I do a bunch of different things, and it changes all the time. So there's not like one thing that I do there. Um, but it's a great company, and Evan is 21 and he is gonna be a senior, um, and he goes to UNCG, and he got to study abroad in Japan, um, which was an amazing opportunity for him. And then Brielle is 12, my goodness, um, going into the eighth grade, and Declan um would be right below her, and he would be graduating fifth grade this year. Um, but the school, his teachers and his school have really been wonderful. Um, his teachers he transferred to that school in third grade. Um, and so he had a third grade teacher, and uh he was in school for maybe two weeks in fourth grade before he had his last cardiac arrest. But his fourth grade teacher also had him in third grade, and so they are honoring him at their fifth grade graduation this year. Uh, they're gonna have an empty chair for him and um a certificate um and a moment of silence, and so that will be hard um and nice and all of the things, but uh I'm not gonna really worry too much about it and just let whatever happens happens. Um and then Finn is four and he is just full of energy. Uh I don't know how older mothers do it because I am just it. Whenever he goes to bed, I usually fall asleep at the same time. Uh and that's pretty much it. Uh my older how old were you?

SPEAKER_01 13:03

Well, yeah, how old were you when you got pregnant with Finn? 39. Yeah, 39. So it is and your oldest being 21.

SPEAKER_00 13:13

Yeah. So it's really funny when I uh my my hospital bracelet said 39 years old, and um Finn's said 39, and uh Michael kept all of that stuff. Um I was like, ew, it says 39. I don't want it to say that. And Michael's mom put like white out over it so you couldn't see how old I was. She's like, look, I fixed it for you.

SPEAKER_01 13:40

It is for me, at least with my kids, right? One being 16, almost 17, the other 11. Like when I was just barely 28 compared to 34, it was a very real difference for me in terms of like the bounce back of things, my energy level. Like I was just like, shit, right?

SPEAKER_00 14:02

Like, yeah, you don't really realize it until you go through it. But it's tough for sure.

SPEAKER_01 14:10

And Finn, when you say like ball of energy, my gosh. Like I adore him, but like I still I have a broken pinky forever because of him. It's forever freaking broken because he runs at you. You played this game, he'd run at me like it, he's a bullet. I mean, he's like just solid muscle, and I would have to bend down and catch him just right and swing him around just right. And I wasn't quite prepared, and he was closer than he was supposed to start, and he just jammed like I felt the jam of my finger, but I had to complete the circle, right? Because he'd laugh. And the next day is like, yeah, he really got me. And it doesn't end. No. I mean, if you spun him around 30, 40, 50, he would have let me.

SPEAKER_00 14:53

Yeah, he doesn't stop. I I just I don't remember. Well, obviously, because Declan and Brielle had their heart condition, they couldn't really do a lot of the same stuff. But and Evan was so long ago. Um, but I don't remember any of my children being as I don't want to say crazy, but so full of energy as Finn.

SPEAKER_01 15:20

And Evan definitely, because you and I lived together when Evan was, was it four? When we then lived in that other apartment and he lived up the stairs.

SPEAKER_00 15:31

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 15:32

Was he four?

SPEAKER_00 15:33

Um he was in preschool. He was in preschool.

SPEAKER_01 15:37

Preschool and on up because then I was pregnant with Casey. So she's gonna be 17. Yeah, that would make perfect sense. Yeah. He he had energy. About that apartment. Oh my gosh. That was a you want me to tell that story? Sure. So well, which one? There's a few stories. Oh my god, hold on. You keep talking for a second. I need my other charger. Okay.

SPEAKER_00 16:04

Um, well, I was thinking the story about when the Winooski police came to our apartment. And I'll let you tell it. Wait a second until you come back.

SPEAKER_01 16:18

Okay, I hope I stay on. Um this one charger doesn't work. But was the story you're thinking of as the police? Yeah. Well, the time they came for uh someone broke it, someone broke in.

SPEAKER_00 16:30

Yeah. Right? Yeah, and but they wouldn't come inside.

SPEAKER_01 16:34

Hatch of the no, these Winwisky police. I mean, sorry to put it out there.

SPEAKER_00 16:39

They wanted to go.

SPEAKER_01 16:41

It's not on us, but it was like late enough because we lived with our good friend Brennan. So Mandy had a room, then Brennan, then me. So I'm in the back corner. But Evan's room was upstairs. And Evan's room was upstairs. Was that right? I don't know. I mean, he was kind of in the center of the home upstairs, so it felt safest away from the front door. But so you walk in the front door, there's Mandy, there's Brennan, there's my room. And Mandy in the front of the house hears and sees someone go into your closet.

SPEAKER_00 17:14

Somebody, yeah. I woke up to someone going into my closet, like looking through things. And I was like, I'm gonna die. I'm gonna die.

SPEAKER_01 17:23

And so what do you do when you think I'm gonna die? Where did you go?

SPEAKER_00 17:26

Well, I was waiting to see if he was gonna try to kill me first.

SPEAKER_02 17:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 17:31

And I would have fought back, but he left and I heard the front door open, but I don't remember if he went outside or not. But I ran to your room and locked the door. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 17:43

So you're you're like, who is gonna protect me? That's gonna be pregnant, Crystal and very pregnant. Mind you, this was in definitely in July and August 19th. It was hot. I had my baby. I was big, yeah, big belly. So in it's it's late. It's definitely after midnight. Mandy runs in my room and she's like, Oh my god, oh my god, right, someone's in the home. And I'm like trying to wake up, you know, figure out what's going on. And I was like, all right, let's like, what are we gonna do here? Run is next door, Evan's upstairs. What's the course of action here? Let's call the police. We call the police. What do the police do? Not much. They come, they can't, they can't get in the front because it was locked. They come around. So they walk around the house and knock on my window and and they're pointing. We we're not even opening the window yet. They're pointing and lipping, go to the front of the house and unlock the door. Okay, asshole. Like, we have someone who broke into our home, and you're telling me to go through my home where the person could be, but still, I was like, All right, like and we opened the window.

SPEAKER_00 18:54

I was still on the phone with the dispatcher or something, like, my son is upstairs.

SPEAKER_01 18:59

Yes, yeah. What's gonna happen to Evan here? Oh my gosh, what about Brenna? And then um, I forget if if we let one through my window where we just opened the front door. What happened? You open the front door because I was thinking at that time I was just like, I didn't have patience for it. It was like sometimes I just say that or think that. Like, if I'm gonna go, I'm gonna go. I just feel like I'm not even scared, I'm tired. You know, it's almost like was better for me and went and let them in and come to find out, you know, it was someone who was just hanging out with our roommate and was a bit intoxicated and was looking for the bathroom, you know. So all we had to do with that was, you know, maybe clean some kiss out of the closet. Um, but it was real. It's those moments, it's like phrase and time.

SPEAKER_02 19:47

And those and then then when you got Evan, it's like all of all of the thoughts of what could have happened. He's fine.

SPEAKER_00 19:55

He slept with me for like a week after that.

SPEAKER_01 19:57

Yes, locked my do forever easily. Yeah, that was that was traumatizing that happened. Um yeah, that was a good time. So we lived together in two places, Burlington and Winooski. Um, and then yes, you visited in New York, and I've now visited North Carolina. That was fun. Um, so let's talk about the podcast. Yeah. The grief and gratitude podcast, why we were why we created it, but also like we're so new in this. We're not, I think this will be the 16th episode. So we really want to know like how to create a space that is a space for people, a place where someone can come and not be stressed out, not be ex right, and nothing's expected of you. And also, if you want to create a space to share your story, you can do that. But Mandy, when you before reaching out to me, like how'd this idea come to be and what was kind of your your reasoning or your purpose for it?

SPEAKER_00 21:03

Yeah. So Declan had passed away um September 23rd, 2024. And I still had to get Brielle to school. So I obviously was not working at the time, uh, not really sleeping, not really anything. So um I would listen to podcasts on the way there and on the way home, and sometimes just in my bed or in the living room, or wherever. And I felt that they were just like really helpful and I felt not alone, uh, and I could relate to some of these stories. Um, but I also wanted to tell my story too, to be like, I have a Story too. And, you know, I want to talk about my child and speak about how strong he was and how he had five cardiac arrests and he survived five cardiac arrests. Um, and you know, he had his limitations, but he was still sweet. He didn't, you know, let that bother him. He didn't say, why me? This is unfair, you know. Um, he just tried to be a good friend and wanted people to like him and would give out compliments. And so I wanted to just share his story about him uh and my experience of going through that so other people who experience similar things um could relate. And so I thought, well, these podcasts have been helping me. Maybe they can help someone else if I started one. And I was like, well, I don't I don't really know uh where to begin. So then I contacted you and kind of told you a little bit of what I just said, and I said, I think that it would be great if we could do it together. And so I kind of So here we are.

SPEAKER_01 23:34

Yeah. So here we are, and I think what's awesome about that is Mandy reached out to me and to date I've never completed a podcast. I don't know if I'd ever listened to one before, but right, I just get little snippets on social media. Uh, but since we started doing this, I've definitely listened to a few, but not in full, right? So we also, I think we're just testing it out. The what's beautiful about it is man, it could literally be me and you that gained something from this experience of sharing our story with each other and have created this space with each other. And within that, I I just know from the podcasts we've already done and the relationships we've created with people we've done this, their episode of, right? That it's it's already done its job to the extent that it has already provided a space for us to be safe.

SPEAKER_00 24:32

And we've had so many people reach out wanting to share their story as well, which is exactly what we wanted.

SPEAKER_01 24:40

Yeah, it it doesn't end, right? I think with each each person, there's then it branches out and then new people hear about it and reach out. So, you know, for me when we decided to do this, it was like how cool that we can make a space where someone can decide, I want to share my stuff. I want to share my story. I want to share my story in my way. I want to be given a full right half hour hour where I can just go on and on and share what the experience was for me and what I've gotten from the experience and gratitude I've gotten. Um, because otherwise we don't really have control, right? In life, in real life, you go around and someone knows of your loss and may or may not bring it up. Someone hears of your loss and you respond in a way we can't control. Or they might not even know the whole story. Exactly. Um, and you may not be in a space to answer it or want to, right? Like here, you are given this space to just be safe and share your story. And all of the listeners are here because they chose to listen to your story. So the discomfort element is taken out too, right? Like I'm choosing to listen to this story. Um and I think that makes it much easier. At least for me when I shared, right? A lot a lot of sadness, you know, came up for me post-sharing, but it was also a release of sadness. Yeah. Because I can't always 100% share. You're almost like adapting your story to the situation. Right. Um so the the podcast is really to allow anyone who wants to to share their story and to create a space where others can listen. Um, and even if they choose not to share a story, to feel understood.

SPEAKER_00 26:36

Right. To be heard, to be seen, to be understood, um, which I think is really important. Um, and that's all people really want. Um, but it's definitely given me more gratitude because well, it's brought us closer. It's made me feel like we're helping people. Um it's making me feel like Declan would be so proud because I wanted to do this for him, and he's there kind of leading me and helping me. Um, and gratitude to everyone who shares their story because all these people have these amazing stories, and I can't even pick one that is my favorite or least favorite because people are just amazing and um it's just beautiful.

SPEAKER_01 27:33

Vulnerable, yeah, like so openly, consciously vulnerable sharing the most pain they've experienced with sometimes two strangers, right? We we have not known, I think half of them at least. And to openly tell the story, to choose to be vulnerable.

SPEAKER_00 27:53

Um and I think almost every single person who has shared a story has said, I hope this helps at least one person.

SPEAKER_01 28:01

There's that common, yeah, goal and people, even in their suffering, wanting to help another person.

SPEAKER_00 28:09

So when you think the world is going down the shitter, no, just kidding.

SPEAKER_01 28:14

Sort of sometimes kinda, yeah, here we are, wanting to help.

SPEAKER_00 28:18

And there's people who still want to help just one person.

SPEAKER_01 28:21

And we wouldn't pick one, but if we had to pick one, which we don't have to, if I could give one shout out, I do have to shout out Babetta, right? Because yes, Babetta, your story, your vulnerability, and your continued reach out to us in in just shout out. I feel we have, I just adore you, Babetta.

SPEAKER_00 28:44

So yeah, I don't even know if it's her story. I think it's just her.

SPEAKER_01 28:48

Babetta, your energy, your light, your podcast, all the things. If anyone has an or is interested, please reach out. We will happily send you the link.

SPEAKER_00 28:57

Um because yeah, there's there's so many like Betsy's and Hopes and I could go on and on. Babetta who's always promoting us too. Keep it up. We will promote you. Babetta.

SPEAKER_01 29:13

We love you. Yes, absolutely. Um, so anyone who has a story, I would say please reach out to us in in any way. We are scheduled out, I think the next three or four weeks. Um, but it's nice to kind of get a date because it also allows you, allows us time to just check in with you and see what your story is around. Maybe you're not quite sure. Maybe there's a few stories or areas of grief and gratitude you want to speak of, but you want to talk about it and kind of play out what your hour might look like. Reach out to us. Like let's let's talk through that together to also provide you an opportunity of preparation for your moment to share your story.

SPEAKER_00 29:59

Um, yeah, I think and to talk about if there's parts that you don't want to talk about. Absolutely because you know how we ask questions and want to know more. Um, that's always a good, a good thing to talk about.

SPEAKER_02 30:15

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 30:16

Well, this was our a little bit of get to know us. Um, and to share our goals, please reach out to us. Any questions or if you want to schedule a time to tell your story, uh reach out to us. I know uh either what there's there's Gmail, there's Instagram, there's Facebook, there's all the ways. Thank you for listening.

SPEAKER_00 30:37

Um, hold on. We speaking of Babetta, I have to just say she has a podcast now. So go find her podcast. Um, her Instagram is Beside Death Life, and that should give you the link to all of her stuff. She is great. Um, so there you go. That's our little plug for her.

SPEAKER_01 31:06

That is, that is, and she didn't pay us one dollar. Um not one. Um, thank you for listening. Uh again, I just say for everyone going through their grief journey to um know that you deserve grace and you deserve kindness. And if there's times you can't show up in ways others want you to show up for, that is okay. We are rooting for you, um, praying for you, caring for you, all of the things. And we'll have another, well, this episode will be out tomorrow, Tuesday the twelfth, uh, give or take, right in the morning. And then we'll have another episode following that. Um, thank you everyone for listening.

SPEAKER_00 31:52

Yeah, thanks so much. And we will keep on going along. Keep on keeping on. Message us with your stories because we want to share them.