Episode 15- Matt and Monica Part ll

Part 2, Matt & Monica continue their story of loss, love, and unwavering faith. Their vulnerability and genuine connection was felt throughout this episode.

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Hey everyone, welcome back to Grief and Gratitude. It's Amandy, and we're here with Matt and Monica again, and of course, Crystal. Hi, everyone. Thank you, Matt and Monica, for joining us.

SPEAKER_02 0:11

Thank you for having us again. Of course. This part is really an extension to the story Matt began for us last week and also as an opportunity for us to hear the experience through Monica's telling. We wanted to start with you, Matt, if you could just kind of remind us of your children and their names and tell us a little bit about them.

SPEAKER_05 0:34

Sure. I guess I'll start with my oldest Kylie. She was 18 when she passed. Outside of the Rocky last couple years of her being a rebellious teenager, wanting to do her own thing. We always been incredibly close, talking about her personality right off the bat. You know, she was a spitfire. She was a spunky, but she was super, super caring. She loved me. So I should say I like to say she loves me because I believe that love is still there.

SPEAKER_01 1:00

That love never goes away.

SPEAKER_05 1:02

Yeah. And um, you know, she loved doing things with me. She loved whether I'm doing, you know, tomboy things considered or things that were considered like Tomboyish for her. Like she helped me with electrical in my garage. Um, one of my most fond memories, it sounds funny, but we studded my snowmobile track together, which if anybody's ever done that, it is. I mean, maybe it's because I didn't really know what I was doing, it didn't help, but it was brutally hard. And she sat there the whole time and really didn't complain, and really she really enjoyed being able to help, which goes back to which, you know, I think we mentioned in the last podcast. She uh was able to, you know, donate her organs and stuff. So like that was a huge plus because that is just so her. That is that is her to a T. But um, you know, even even when things uh did dial down as far as the adversity with the custody battle towards the end, she uh like on her birthday last year, we went and got dinner, and she was just she was so loving and so appreciative, and um and she knows how I am. I'm I've I've been called cheap more than once in my life, and we went out to dinner for her birthday, and she's like, I told her get whatever she wanted, and she's looking at the calamaria for an appetizer, and she's like, she's like, it sounds good, but I I don't I shouldn't get it. And I'm like, Kylie, but you know, and I like she's like, Oh wow, Dad.

SPEAKER_01 2:19

She was just so full of energy, and she loved like doing her hair and you know, her nails and stuff, just like I would say, like almost like any other girl or teenager, but she loved you know going on runs and walks and hikes with us too. Like she she loved nature a lot.

SPEAKER_05 2:35

And um, I guess shifting gears over to Tyler, man, it's it's it's hard. Tyler was I I really wanted him to be all the things that I didn't like about myself or things that I was insecure with about myself my entire life. Primarily, I got him into wrestling at a young age, um, like I think it was eighth grade, and uh he loved it. And I and I always look back to it because I believe those one-on-one activities, one-on-one sports like that, it really it forces you into it. You know, you gotta challenge yourself, and you learn a lot about yourself with doing hard things, and he he loved that. And he was he was super proud of making me proud. He loved he loved doing things that he knew, and and he always tried so hard to make me proud, and he didn't have to necessarily. It was just he really cared about the way I viewed him. And I also loved the fact that he was 13, 14, he was still wearing like Pokemon shirts and stuff. He he embraced his inner nerd while he still hung out with he was like me in um in high school. Like I hung out with nerdy people, I hung out with the popular people. I just I've always loved people, I don't care as long as you're a decent human being. Uh boy, you know, he he joined wrestling his um last year of high school. So he he would have done it in 11th grade as well, and um he really liked that as well. But it was it was really cool because I had a lot of parents that reached out to me and said things like, you know, your son was my son's first friend. He was he was the first one to give my son an opportunity. I had a kid reach out to me that was in his grade, and he told me that Tyler introduced him, like asked him to sit with him at lunch at his table, and because kid didn't really have many friends. And in it when I when I heard that, man, uh I broke down pretty pretty good because that is so something I talked to him about. Like, listen, dude, like it it how you make other people feel in this world is so incredibly important. Um Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 4:26

Yeah, he was always there to help, like no matter what. If I asked him for anything, he would literally like drop what he was doing and run and be like, what did you need and do it and unconditionally right?

SPEAKER_05 4:36

You know, not for money or you know, anything like that.

SPEAKER_01 4:38

No, no. And and and our neighbors too, he would help them all the time. And it's just every night almost, um, when he was here, he would and I would like get up in the middle of the night, go to the bathroom or whatever, and he would be on his phone talking to his girlfriend, and I can just like see that in my mind all the time. It's like dark, and I see his little light of his phone like on his face, or he's eating at the end of the table in his seat that he was always at with his blanket around him.

SPEAKER_05 5:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 5:04

And it's just that's like so burned into my brain.

SPEAKER_05 5:07

For the last about a year of his life, he had he had a long-term relationship with this girl, which is sweetheart. We're good friends with her now. And she actually started going to church since the accident. We see her at church a lot and her family. Um, you know, so it's just a little bit more silver lining and um something that I always think about and I'll think about the rest of my life. I remember uh when Tyler was, he would have been, he would have been 15. And I remember at his track meet, man, it's so hard. Excuse me. Uh he uh I went I went to his track meet, I gave or I said bye to him and I started to walk away. You know, his friends were there and stuff. He's like, Dad, he's like, come here. He's like, You're still I'm still gonna hug you. He's I don't care how old I get. And uh and I remember another, another like really like Tyler moment I had. He was probably 12, 13, about the same age as Bradley is now, like just hitting his girl's spurt because he he was always a very small kid for his age, which is weird because I'm like 6'3. He um I told him, I'm like, dude, you want to go for a motorcycle ride? Pretty soon you're gonna be too big, it's not gonna be cool to ride with your dad anymore. And like he started, he got teary-eyed, and you know, and like that's just that's just so him.

SPEAKER_01 6:15

You know, you know, I see Well, he's a lot like you. Matt is very, I don't want to say sensitive, but very connected, like emotional and stuff like that, and not afraid to show it. And I know no most boys or men are afraid to to let their guard down and be open like that and feel comfortable showing, you know, when they're sad or you know, quote unquote weak or whatever. And Tyler was very much okay with that.

SPEAKER_05 6:38

And yeah, and because of the last couple of years of adversity, like and we we talked about I talked about a lot in our um podcast that we did talking about navigating our loss for the first time back in November and talked about our camping trip. And um, I go back to that a lot because it was I'm I'm big on taking photos and videos and stuff. I just always have been, maybe a little too much sometimes, but uh like after navigating so much adversity, and we when we were hiking, I remember because what in my opinion, most people, at least I hope most people appreciate life more when they go through incredibly difficult times. And um, when we were going on this hiking trip to Mount Marcy, it's the highest mountain in New York State, it was a 19-mile hike we did together, and um it was cool because he was so appreciative of the moment, just so appreciative of every single moment, which makes it so much more unfair that he's gone in a lot of ways, because it's like there's so many people that are not grateful that uh but um you know, and I think everything does truly happen for a reason. So I just you know, I I do I have some questions for God whenever I'm able to ask him, but who knows, maybe in this lifetime I'll have answers and I don't need to ask any questions, you know.

SPEAKER_00 7:52

Well, thank you so much for sharing about them. I just wanted to um point out how special it is when other people reach out to tell you stories like the lunch table and how a lot of people are scared to come forward and and talk to you. But it it's so wonderful when people do and tell you stories and you you realize that your influence on your child also made a mark on someone else.

SPEAKER_04 8:19

Yes. Yeah, yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 8:21

And it's really just a a very beautiful thing.

SPEAKER_04 8:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 8:24

Thank you for sharing. Monica, we will now shift over to you. Um however you want, right in whatever place it feels comfortable to begin your story. Feel free.

SPEAKER_01 8:34

Okay. Um I it's obviously specifically about like the day of the accident. Um I was home and I think it was on a what day, a Thursday. So it was um I was actually cleaning the boys' room uh when Madd called me, which is weird to me. Um but he had called me and said that he was gonna put me on speaker, speaker phone because there was an accident. I'm sorry. You're okay, take your time. And obviously we didn't really know um how bad it was because he was like an hour and a half away. And so he's like cruising there, so I'm worried about what happened, but I'm worried about him going there and driving himself. So I'm glad I guess at least that I was on speaker so I could hear him. I almost got in an accident on the way there too. And he uh he was on the phone with Bradley, obviously, at the time. Um, I think we said that in the other um episode. And so I run upstairs, and then my daughter Melanie was home and I'm like, Mel, something happened, and she so she was in the living room with me, and I'm pacing and like going back in our room and in the kitchen and walking all over because I it was just uh anxiety and stuff, and that's like what I do a lot of times when I'm on the phone and I'm like in this, I don't want to say heated conversation, but just uh fear conversation, I guess. So Matt shifting forward, Matt gets to um the scene of the accident, and uh I don't really remember a lot. I remember him getting to Bradley and hear Tara screaming. Yeah. Um I could kind of hear like people in the background, maybe. I heard someone find so Tara, Tasha's sister, I heard her saying something like they didn't make it, but her scream when they said to her that they didn't make it, just her scream. I didn't know when I was on the phone if I should try to go there or like what to do. So I'm like I'm home, kind of helpless, not knowing what to do, didn't know like who to call. It's really kind of different for me to get emotional like this because a lot of times I hold it in because I'm trying to be strong for him and Bradley and my daughters. So when um I think Matt was like kind of on his way back and he said, I'm just gonna come home, I'm gonna get you. I have Bradley, we're gonna go to the hospital where Kylie was because she was airlifted um upstate. So I think was I off the phone with you when you were headed home, I think, because Bradley and Matt were safe in the car coming to get me. And I immediately just thought, okay, I have this huge church family and I need prayers right now. So I called and texted just a couple people, and those people like immediately stopped what they were doing and came to my house. They lived kind of close. And then, of course, my family, my two sisters and my mom came to our house too and stayed with my daughter Melanie while I left and went to the hospital with Matt and Bradley. And it's just, it's it's one of those things where you're waiting for someone to call you and say they're fine. And that, you know, Natasha and Tyler are at the hospital, but they're okay. They have injuries, whatever. And it's like in my brain, I was waiting for someone to say that, but it never happened. And then um going to the hospital and seeing Kylie in the room. I'm like missing so much stuff, and just seeing Kylie, someone that you just have worried about for so long and see her like helpless, and that you can't do anything is really hard. I think just going there almost every day for three weeks. You're waiting for a miracle to happen. Matt has said, I think, in the last episode, how we know people that had miracles happen, that they were so close to death or so close to not being able to come out of the situation that they were in. And I was just waiting for something to happen and that thing didn't happen. So again, it's like we're trying to mourn the loss of Natasha and Tyler praying that Kylie gets out of this and that doesn't happen. And we're like, I I think we I feel like I'm still in shock. I feel like um we are those people where a lot of times people are like, that happens to those people, that stuff doesn't happen to us, and it did, and it's just still a very unsettling, weird feeling that we are in this situation, I guess.

SPEAKER_04 12:49

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 12:50

I I just want to say I feel the same way as you. My son um passed September 2024, and just as you're talking, he had four cardiac arrests over three years. And so when he had his fifth one, it was like, okay, he's gonna be okay because he's been okay all the other times. Right. And then he had another one uh while we were in the hospital, and again, he's gonna be okay. He just had another one and he's always come back. And then it obviously didn't turn out that way. And the the same hearing the scream from his stepmom in the hallway, and I'm still in shock as well. I I just feel so much connection with you guys because I feel the same, even though it's a totally different situation, we're still feeling similar feelings as to what happened. Like it's still shocking, it's still this doesn't happen to to us. This happens to other people and they're gonna come out of it. And it's just I just feel connection with you. I understand, and I just want you know, I hear you and I see you and I understand what you're saying.

SPEAKER_01 14:09

Yeah, I also feel like in my mind, um, we had 50-50 custody. So in my mind, it's like Tyler's just at Natasha's house or just at a friend's house, you know. So I feel like yeah, like you expect them just to Yeah, and it's like he's at his dad's, and so it's still not real.

SPEAKER_00 14:28

Yeah, right. It's totally it's so hard. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 14:31

You know, I I just um I had a I had a memory as I was talking. I don't think I talked about it on our last one. I when last week did I talk about going to their house?

SPEAKER_01 14:43

I don't think like recently.

SPEAKER_05 14:44

So um not to swing in a different direction, but um I just I just think it's an interesting perspective for people to hear. Uh we had to go to Max wife's house to get my son's belongings and um back to a perspective shift for people. You know, keep in mind this is my old house that I bought with Mac's wife, you know, as a modular double-wide, and we got it brand new when we were young and we super proud and excited to move into this together. Had three kids there, and um after we separated, she stayed there. And Bradley and I had to walk into this house where literally everything in the house is now dead. Every, you know, like even the dogs and um looking around. And of course, I'm in this house and I'm seeing these old pictures on the wall, and Natasha kept everything. She was a back rat. And um, so I I guess this is an opportunity to talk a little about bit about her, and um, we um, you know, because I I found a lot of things that especially somebody if they separate from people, a lot of people like get rid of pictures and stuff. No, she like kept photos of us and stuff, and uh and man, just going through and seeing like my kids' old toys and my kids' old bunk bed that I built by hand and you know, walls that I painted with Mac's wife, and you know, it's because it's weird. It's it's like it's a strange dynamic because it's like the animosity was it was real for a few years, but there were so many good years too. And like I I had I had to and it's it's hard for her to have this perspective because she didn't really understand that or know that person that I was once with. And she she knew and she's obviously able able to more so remember just when things weren't good. And um it's hard for me because it's like I have a very hard time remembering the good when there was so much bad, but it's like since since time has, I guess, passed, I'm now like I I'll have thoughts of things that I just haven't thought of in many, many, many years of uh, you know, different things and um I also think a different perspective too is like regardless of the you know, you know, good or horrible relationship that Natasha and I had, she was in a different part of her life, a different part of her journey in her life.

SPEAKER_01 16:55

And we're in a different part of you know, in our journey and everybody else that we know, everyone's in a different point. And regardless of how hard it was for her, like she's still a human being, she's still my stepkid's mom. And regardless of what has happened, what was done, what was said, whatever, it's like she was hurting, and I just I know right now in my heart and my soul that she's okay right now, and that's all that anyone should hope for for someone, regardless of your relationship with that person. And Bradley's here, and that's his mom. And I I still I think that's that's the hardest part. It is, but at the end, no matter how hard and bad it was, like the end wasn't it wasn't bad. Yeah, you know, and I actually I have this I have a screenshot of a text message that I had sent her like maybe a week before the accident or something. And I was just like basically, God chooses you every single day, every moment of every single day he chooses you. And her answer back, we just because we didn't really ever talk or call or text or anything like that. I just felt such this urge to write to her to kind of just give her a little bit of love. Because I like I always say, you can't fight evil with evil, you have to fight evil with love. And her answer to me, it gives me goosebumps was just like, you know, absolutely, girl with a heart emoji. If people knew knew how things were, that would just give me goosebumps, knowing the people and knowing that people can be forgiven and you can show people love no matter what's happened. And that gives me a little bit of peace that when she did leave, that we weren't on bad terms.

SPEAKER_02 18:31

And well, thank you for bringing Natasha in, right, to the picture because that was a life lost as well. And it speaks to, you know, the journey and complexity. As you said, Matt, she was the woman and mother of your child and the family and the home and the walls you painted, right? All those things are true. Two things can be true at once. It's the same as the love you have and what you've built.

SPEAKER_05 19:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 19:01

But what a beautiful thing, that connection, that text. You like you couldn't place that better leading up to such tragedy. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 19:12

It was hard. Um, I remember waking up, it was, I think it was October. So we're talking two, three months after the accident. And I remember waking up one morning and I was like, I was emotional. I woke up crying and I didn't know how to say something to her. And I'm like, I never grieved over Natasha. And uh, and I'm like, and I said to her, I'm like, you know, and it it's and it was weird saying this at first, but she's super understanding. And I'm like, at one point in my life, I loved her similarly to how I love you. And like, that's it's crazy to think that.

SPEAKER_01 19:45

And uh and it's just I think people in a you know, world where people are divorced all the time, you don't have to hate the other person. And it's hard. This is like so really not on the same like the subject of you know what we're talking about, but it's okay to, you know, so care about the other person or mourn their loss if they had passed. And like I'm mourning her loss as well, even though it's very different. It's still we're all kind of in the same boat. We all lost someone that is important in this, you know, life. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_02 20:16

And she was meaningful to both of you in different ways, and there's now this loss of this woman that would have remained a part of your lives, right? And things could have potentially continued to move in such a way to come together as a family unit. So the grief, the grief is real. Right before this, when you all were talking about the grief stages, right, and shock. I just wanted to put in play, I'm sure you all have looked into like the stages of grief, right? But I always remind myself of the seven. So if we talk, it's shock and denial and anger and bargaining, depression, testing, and acceptance. There's no actual the order isn't right. It's not like I go from shock to denial. Because you can also you can have acceptance and then wake with shock. It's this constant, it's constantly moving.

SPEAKER_01 21:09

Right.

SPEAKER_02 21:09

And over 17 years in, right? I still have moments of bargaining, right? I'm not gonna lie. When you spoke to that, like you still have those questions for God. Maybe life will allow it. Um, but you're you're new to this journey of life without those you love here on earth with you. And it's it's big. It's, you know, it's it's a huge change. And I think talking about it and identifying it is is very helpful.

SPEAKER_04 21:40

Yeah, I agree.

SPEAKER_01 21:41

I think that's something I definitely need to work on. And I'm like the first person to be like, if you need to go to therapy, go to therapy. You know, if you need to do more self love, do that. I will throw that at people all the time. And I think for me, like almost like subconsciously, I keep my mind busy so I'm not like this, feeling like this or crying. Because like I don't want to cry, you know, and he'll say that he's okay with crying and stuff and I'm okay with it. It's just I don't want to be sad. I wanna, I wanna, you know, focus on the life stuff going on right now with being okay with thinking of them without being sad. And I don't know, it's hard sometimes to focus on my daily life when I'm like getting up in the morning and I'm letting the dogs out and I'm thinking of them, or I'm thinking of what if this happened or what if this, or if I could say something to them, this is what I would say, knowing that I could say it and hopefully they can hear me now, you know. And I I think it's just the um in my mind, the no more making memories with them or helping them through life stuff, them growing, healing, and meeting their, you know, husbands or wives and having a life and getting married and all that stuff that isn't gonna happen. It's I try not to let that bother me.

SPEAKER_02 22:55

If I could ask, um, when you do allow yourself to cry or feel emotional, do you find relief after? Do you see the benefit to providing space for yourself to break down?

SPEAKER_01 23:10

Yes. Not I would say not all the time though, because I if I give myself that space, depending on where I am, like if I'm at work, I get frustrated because I'm like, I need to go home. And then I'm like, I just wasted a day of work. So then I'm frustrated with myself that I wasted a day of work, even though I should allow myself to have that time. So it's the compartmentalizing right.

SPEAKER_00 23:30

Yeah, I was gonna say you're too focused on being strong for everyone else, where you need to be strong for yourself too, right? And let yourself feel the feels and yeah.

SPEAKER_05 23:41

Yeah, I just was just having this conversation with my coworker. He's he's one of my best friends, and uh I'm like, I'm like, I just wanted to let you know, buddy. I'm like, I've been hiding it really well the last couple weeks since we got back from vacation. Cause um, I think I just mentioned to you, like, since we've been back from vacation two weeks ago, like I've been struggling so bad. And um actually the last two, three days, two days have been I think the storm finally breaks, and I think that's something that's really important for people to remember. It's for me, it's very difficult to remember. It's easy to preach this, but it's very hard to follow. It's like the storm will break, and um, it may not break permanently, but it it's going to break, and just I don't know, you know, and I go back to I don't push religion on anyone, but man, when I pray and I really ask God, be like, hey, just throw me a sign. Sometimes I've realized when I'm asking that, I'm like, wait, like I've had signs being thrown in my face that you got I gotta be damn near blind to miss them. And uh sometimes you just need to open your eyes and then you know, like going back to being grateful. I actually heard this quote literally right before we got on this something I was running to said when you're grateful, you uh it if you're fully grateful and you can be present, it leaves no room for anxiety, fears, and lack thereofs. And uh I I really like that because when I'm really able to look at my life and I'm able to look at her and I'm able to look at my son and what I do have, I'm just like, I am so damn fortunate. Because like how many people don't know what it's like to roll over in the morning to look at somebody next to them and be truly in love? Like, there's a lot of people that never experienced that. And um, I don't know. I just I am so fortunate. I am so fortunate. I go back to the saying, you know, I'm just fortunate for the 16 years and 18 years with the kids. Not exactly how I wanted things to work out, but uh it is what it is. Sorry.

SPEAKER_02 25:32

It's in important to remember, right? The the leaning in to gratitude, um, because in some instances people feel like I shouldn't be grateful, right? Almost because the loss, I'm doing this without them, or I wonder if I'm gonna be judged for being as happy as I am right now because of what I've lost. And if we actually, and if you believe in God or a higher power, if you lean into that and you lean into faith and love and you humanity, right, anxiety really does go. It leaves our bodies, even if it's fleeting, even if it's for a moment, it's that fully leaning in.

SPEAKER_04 26:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 26:12

Um, and as you said, the fact that you can roll over and see Monica and feel filled with the love you two have for each other, that is a gift beyond words.

SPEAKER_05 26:24

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 26:24

Like if we didn't have each other, I don't know how right now would be.

SPEAKER_05 26:29

You know, that that just made me think too is I have found going through extreme loss, and when you when I think this is really important for people because when you go through what's most people's literal worst nightmare, it really takes your threshold of what can go wrong and it raises the bar. And I look at especially the first month or two, I looked at everything. I'm like, because when when you love something someone or something so much, you are you're vulnerable. You're you're risking that what could happen if you lose that person. And I thought about that so much and thinking about people that have lost their um husbands and wives, and I'm just like, today at church, a little elderly lady was talking to us and with tears in her eyes about lost her husband years ago, and like I could feel her pain, and it scares the living hell out of me. You know, she was talking about not not liking being home alone and lonely, and I'm just like, I don't know, because I that's that's something I've been trying to um not allow my mind to go down those paths of just like being concerned about what I can still lose. It doesn't do any good.

SPEAKER_01 27:32

Any second your other child, because we have three kids, like we still have Bradley, Melanie, and Taylor, and any time they're out the door, yeah, I'm just waiting for them to be like, hey, I made it here, I made it back to school, or I made it back to grandma's or wherever it is. I'm just like, you need to like let me know. Like, even more hardcore now than it was before.

SPEAKER_02 27:52

That's definitely an added fear once you've lost so big, it's been helpful, at least for me. My kids are 16 and almost 11, but the 16-year-old, you know, like the idea if I lost her after losing my twin and then having her like, oh my God, what if I lost her? I almost couldn't fully love her because I was so afraid to lose her. Yeah. And then as we got into these preteen years and moving forward in vehicles, right, and all these things, I really had to pray every night on my knees. I had to pray to that and say, Lord, God, I one, I need sleep. I'm gonna be a bitch tomorrow, right? Like I have things to do. And two, I know it's in your hands, and I'm just asking to protect what is in your way, what's your will in your way, Lord? And I just then meditate to that and let myself fall asleep because we cannot that fear won't stop what's going to happen in anyone's life, but it can absolutely consume you. Yeah.

unknown 28:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 28:59

Was it 99% of the things you have anxieties over never come to fruition?

SPEAKER_02 29:03

So you're you know you're creating it and you're actually potentially giving yourself increased trauma because you're creating a scenario that didn't happen. If it happens, now it's happened twice. If it doesn't happen, but you made yourself experience it, right?

SPEAKER_01 29:20

Like we just created it. It's crazy. That's like yeah, amazing you saying that because it shifts so much like the perspective of your thoughts. Like you, whatever thoughts you get, like I usually can be really good about just like not thinking about it. When it enters my mind, I'm like, all right, I distract myself and do something else and it goes away. Like you control your thoughts, and it's like it's like you can control your happiness. Like when you get sad, it's okay, but don't like you can sit with it, don't live there forever. You have to like we're human beings. This is what we do. It's how you know, it's in our souls to feel sad or depressed, anxiety, happiness, love, and everything, but it's kind of up to us how we, you know, let certain things kind of take over our thoughts and our minds.

SPEAKER_05 30:04

Yeah. Choose happiness, I think, in a lot of ways.

SPEAKER_01 30:07

Gratitude. Gratitude is almost the almost the answer to help daily, I think.

SPEAKER_00 30:13

And I think too uh hearing you both, Crystal and Matt and Monica, speak about your faith. Before my son passed away, I was more agnostic. I didn't really know what I believed. And after he passed, I really just leaned into I felt him. I knew there was it was he wasn't not there anymore. He was still with me. I felt him with me for days after. Um and he sent me signs clearly from him, like not a coincidence, definitely a sign. So I just wish that more people could experience that and feel that and not have to go through a tragedy or bad divorce or situation to get to that point. It's it's just unfortunate, but it is, I appreciate your faith and it just makes mine feel stronger.

SPEAKER_05 31:11

You know, I've I've always wondered if somebody that has had zero loss or zero adversity, if they could listen to a conversation like this, it's like, can we can we give somebody a piece of our knowledge to the point they're going to be able to have more appreciation, be grateful without going through the loss and the pain and the hardship? And it stinks because it's like, I don't think you can, you know. Kind of like, you know, uh, like I think I mentioned how we drove by an accident. Like I I used to drive by accidents, car accidents and stuff when I worked for the police department and stuff, didn't faze me at all. Like, wow, you know, that's that looked like it sucked. But now it's like I and I could feel the pain in the air, and I don't know how to explain it. Like that, it's that empathy is just yeah, and it's it is a good thing.

SPEAKER_01 31:55

It's just but it's it's not like that for everyone though, because you you drive by and you feel the empathy and you get very, you know, I hope everyone's okay type of thing. But sometimes when things like that happen to people, they get angry and bitter at life instead. So I like again, it's kind of like what what road do you want to go down?

SPEAKER_02 32:13

Yeah, absolutely. Monica, I would like to go back a bit to within your story after the loss, you know, after the three weeks, I think it was in the hospital and you know, coming home and trying to come back to home and create a new normal. Yeah. How was it for you personally to experience and not only support your family, but navigate through your own grief and gratitude? How was that in the early stages for you?

SPEAKER_01 32:48

I think it was just literal full-blown shock at first, and it didn't seem real. When I pull myself like out of myself, kind of like watching myself do the things that I do. Like I I was the one that went through the boys' bedroom after everything and kind of shifted some stuff around, but not too much. So it was very different for Bradley. Just so when he walked into the room, I didn't want it like Tyler was never there, but I wanted it a little bit different, so it didn't, it wasn't in his face that he wasn't here anymore for Bradley. So I just tried to make it comfortable for him. And then just going through Tyler's stuff, like I I feel like I was okay doing it because I I didn't let myself, I guess, fully know why I was doing it, if that makes sense. I was just doing it with them being gone, Kylie and Tyler. I and Matt will agree to this, but I'm usually always the one that does like the Christmas shopping and the Easter baskets and make sure the school stuff is here and everything. And I think for me that's one of the hardest things.

SPEAKER_05 33:50

Especially navigating the holidays, man. Like, you know, I it was it was weird though. Like Thanksgiving, when we did have Thanksgiving, like that was Tyler's, he likes food, he's like me. And I was I liked Thanksgiving. I thought it was healing, you know, like in sounds corny, but you know, I was I was very thankful this year of all the family members that I had, more so than ever. And and and we had it was great to see everyone, and but uh and navigating Christmas was different, but you know they say God works mysterious ways, so and yeah, that I I was just gonna we had a very long story short. We we just we had a neighbor of ours that was literally dying the week of Christmas.

SPEAKER_01 34:31

I took the week off to be home and um long story short, we c took care of him like we would bring him food and to make sure he had fresh water and he wanted coffee, so we made him coffee, and it we were just for Matt especially it was frustrating.

SPEAKER_05 34:45

Not that I just it was like it was like frustrating, but it was like um and it was weird after like day three of like helping him find his catheter plug and stuff in a not good situation. I was like, man, this is a heck of a distraction. I'm like, man, this is God working in mysterious ways for us, and it really helped, you know, helped us.

SPEAKER_01 35:04

Yeah, but I also going back to the question, it's like there's you know, a little bit less of the, you know, we need to go to this wrestling tournament or pick him up from practice and stuff. Now we have one child that's doing that stuff, and it's just it's like the lesser of things that we're doing that we wish we were doing, it's just not there and it's never gonna be there again. So it's kind of it's a weird feeling because it should be there. I mean, we so this is where my mind is at is that I think it should be there, but the bigger power above is like, no, that's not, that's that's the story, and that's how it was and is supposed to be, even if we feel like that's not how it's supposed to be. And I think that helps me too, is like I know where Natasha, Kylie, and Tyler are, and that gives me in it just an abundance of comfort and peace because they're okay. You know, we're the one I don't want to say we're the ones stuck here, you know, but we're on earth in this fallen world that we're gonna feel all these emotions, but they are glowing and they're happy and they're safe and and they do show us signs. I have this thing with Kylie and it's sun dogs. I don't I don't think I said this in the last episode. I hope I'm not repeating myself.

SPEAKER_05 36:15

Uh but you guys familiar with the term sun dogs, I don't know if that's like a century New York thing or not.

SPEAKER_01 36:20

So a sun, it's like a like a little like smudgeon of rainbow in the sky, and it's it's not like a U-shaped or you know, it's just like a little blob of rainbow. And I would always send pictures to Kylie and I would see them with her a lot, and I see them all the time. And every time I see them, I'm like, hey, you know, hey, Kylie. I obviously think of her like big time, and it's just like her to me checking in, saying, I see you, and you know, I'm just saying hi and making it aware that I'm here with you or with all of you, just thinking of you, yeah. I guess, you know, just just a little sign. And I like how you said like the coincidences thing, like we don't believe in them. I think they don't exist. Uh I think no matter how many signs people maybe feel or think that they see during a day, you could see thousands of them. They could all be signs is you know, it's sometimes people are like, Oh, well, I see a sign once in a while, you know, but you have to open yourself up to receiving them too and not being closed off.

SPEAKER_05 37:20

One thing about Tyler's perspective or like the way Tyler he appreciated Monica so damn much too. Like he he loved Monica, like he would hug Monica and tell her he loves her, and like um, and when we were navigating a lot like through the custody situation, like, you know, he would say things like, We're really lucky to have her, and like stuff like that. He'd he'd, you know, and and Kylie, Kylie, I I just think of all I'd think of like you braiding her hair. Like she loved Monica braiding her hair so much.

SPEAKER_01 37:51

She was always really awkward when she would ask me. She would have like the hair ties in the brush and brush and her hands, and she'd be like, Do you want to braid my hair? I'm like, Yes, I always always will say yes. We would do that. And the conversations that Kylie and I would have, um, she always just loved sitting there talking about the universe and aliens and this weird stuff that she's like, no one else really talks to me about this stuff. You know, they might think it's weird, but we would sit there forever talking about all these weird things, and that was very special to me. And I think about that stuff all the time.

SPEAKER_02 38:23

What a blessing for Tyler and Kylie to have the opportunity as long as they did with you on Earth, right? To form that relationship. Can I ask how many years have you been together and have you been a part of their, were you a part of their life?

SPEAKER_01 38:40

Yeah. So we're going on, so September would be 10 years. So it's a long time. It's weird to think about how long that is. Like Bradley was like, what, three, I think, when we first got together. And it's so crazy because when we met, like we both were like, man, we we're losers, we're living in our parents' basements, you know, our jobs are in, and we have kids, like, no one's gonna want to talk to us. So I'm like, this is like meant to be, you know. We gotta, we gotta get together. It's gotta be us. Yeah. And it just like we clicked so quickly. And then I remember, I think we went to um a little restaurant where I met his kids for the first time, and they were so they're so cute and tiny and silly. When we would all get together, it was just like this is like how it's supposed to be.

SPEAKER_05 39:29

Melanie, so my my stepdaughter Melanie, she's the same age as my daughter, and um, so it it was uh it was an interesting dynamic.

SPEAKER_01 39:38

Well, Kylie loved Melanie, and like so many photos we have. Kylie's arm is around Melanie, and that just like yeah, blended families.

SPEAKER_05 39:46

There's never any issues with blended families, it's so easy all the time. Yeah, uh five kids. Oh my gosh. But it was I don't know, it was it was incredible, and it still is.

SPEAKER_02 39:59

Yeah. How is that with so it's Melanie and Taylor, correct? And Bradley, and so with the three of them, how is it now in because there's different stages of grief and different ways of expression? Do you find that as a unit you've been able to kind of navigate grief together? Or how do how are you doing this? How are you supporting them?

SPEAKER_05 40:26

They're gone. So Taylor, she's moved out now. She's 20, and um, so but she's away a lot. I talked to her a little bit about it because she was like, There's you know, the kids all went through phases where like one kid got along good with us, kid, and like almost like and then they'd start beckering, and then in like Tyler. I think Tyler kind of always got along with them, but I think sometimes it was the girls, it was almost you know, like yeah, bumping heads, like tip very typical.

SPEAKER_01 40:50

But but then they would still hang out together and love each other. It's just normal sibling stuff, I think.

SPEAKER_05 40:56

Um But Melanie's just you know, she we're we're so open about stuff, and like I've never once tiptoed about my thoughts about the kids at all. Like if I think about them or if I have a if I had a dream, I'll talk about it. And um, I think that's my opinion. I think it's so much healthier than avoiding talking about it. And and like don't get me wrong, I don't want to like I don't want that to be like all I talk about become my identity to talk about nothing but the loss we had, because it's like you know, I c I could see that as being it could be detrimental to maybe even the kids. Um, but we would always just we talk about things and I don't know. I d I feel like I just feel like everybody's doing given the gravity of the situation, especially doing really good.

SPEAKER_01 41:42

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I wish we saw uh my oldest more, but she lives like an hour away.

SPEAKER_05 41:48

Melanie and Tyler were like the last like years, Melanie was good friends with Tyler's girlfriend, so like they would kind of like do things together even, and like they got to be like they're always like picking on each other and stuff and just being, I don't know, they're each other.

SPEAKER_02 42:04

Yeah. So you know that is yeah, I mean, for a whole nother podcast, but it's so sad to think of the girlfriend for me to think of being she's 17, 18 when the incident happened to be a 17 or 18 year old and to lose like that, right? I'm like right, oh my gosh, the yeah, the weight. Um and it's also very special she has that relationship with Melanie because there's that also connection. Um that knowing where they they both know him.

SPEAKER_04 42:42

Yeah, right. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 42:44

Yeah. I'm so glad that like they just hung out the other day. So I think that'll be hopefully a forever thing, and they'll be there for each other and yeah, yeah, talk about Tyler and stuff.

SPEAKER_02 42:55

Well, why don't we? I mean, we're going on the hour now. I would love to hear some um either what wasn't helpful to you or what was helpful to you in particular within your role and within the family. Does anything come to mind? Any advice you could give to someone like this may work or you may want to stay clear of that?

SPEAKER_01 43:18

I think one of the first things that comes to my mind is to know that it's okay to be sad and to talk about how you're feeling and talk about your loss because it is what happened, it is reality, and talking about it kind of relieves you a little bit, at least for a little while. And if you can talk about it with someone that maybe went through a similar situation, not that you want anyone to understand your pain, but you connect with someone like that, and it's just different than just talking to like a therapist or something. I think the connection gives you a little bit more peace. So definitely, I think being open and honest about your feelings and knowing it's okay to feel sad.

SPEAKER_05 44:00

I think in this this is again, I've I've always been pretty weird when it comes to this. But uh I've I've talked to a lot of people and I would bring it up and sometimes there'd be people that have no idea what we've been navigating. I would I would like people and sounds weird. It's not like I don't mean like I would brag to them about what we've been going through or what we've been through, but I like people to know because if they obviously I told you I just got done with a big uh like run with my son, you know. I think it's important for people in the area, like they s they see me out running, you know, a few days a week with my dog or whatever, it's like that's my answer, you know. When I could have I could have just stayed home isolated and chosen other ways to tolerate this. And I think me being open and talking to people about this has opened dialogue with people that I never would have had. And uh, you know, kind of in similar in a similar sense, I always go back to Terry Tucker. Uh you know, he he talked about his cancer. He's like, he wouldn't change him having cancer because him having cancer has allowed him to meet incredible people and like it just it changes appreciation of life. Now, I'm not saying I could say the same thing about losing my kids. Like, if I could choose for them to be here, absolutely, that would be my choice. However, there can be so much good that can come out of the negative situation. And I believe if you lean into it, I think the more tragic your situation, the more severe the loss is. I think the more silver lining you can find, and you you may have to look for it. And I just I think it it's also an opportunity to show people you know, I hopefully you can be strong and not saying that's all you have to be. You can you can be broken and hurt and all that stuff too, but to show people like right now, people need, I think more than ever, just examples of resilience. People need to see that like regardless of what happens to you, you can you can keep going.

SPEAKER_01 45:54

You can keep going in a good, healthy way, not going down a dark path and substance hurting yourself in any way, like you can do it the healthy way, and yeah, it might be a little bit harder, but in the long run, I think people are gonna realize that it is the better choice, just helping other people. Yeah, like when people are watching your journey of getting through all that kind of stuff, they're like, I don't know how you do it, I don't know how you how you do it. But today you made me think differently, or today you made me do something differently that they wouldn't normally do. I don't even know if that answered your question.

SPEAKER_02 46:25

It no, it did. And I well, it's what is useful. And I think what is useful is for people to listen and engage in conversation around the experience, but also to tell you to do things. I think even with the running, for example, right? I think back to remember when my sister passed, my dad would still go out and with some of his couple, you know, friends that he would go out with. And my mom kind of felt like, oh my gosh, how could he do that? Like my mom just had this sense of like it like almost like disgusted her. Like, who is he? Like he wasn't giving her, like in some way he was harming my sister, the memory of her. And I remember saying, like, mom, it's it is fine if you want to stay home in bed. I I do you, but the fact is, dad is needing to do it different. Judge not, right, in the form of grief. And then someone else goes through a loss. One of my dad's friends, right, loses their child. And then they remember, oh wow, how did Bruce manage that? Or someone went out for a run, like one foot in front of the other. And you do that, and you know, the hope is eventually it kind of sticks. And even when you go for the run maybe five times and it was not so great, one time you're like, shit, I'm really enjoying this. Right. This is feeling really good. Doesn't mean I'm not grieving. It doesn't mean I don't right. Like it's it's many things can be true at one time, but I think what always maintains the same is your love and your connection to your children. It's a story, it's unmovable. I think we could end with one thing you are most grateful for, or gratitude you have now more so coming from this experience, coming from this loss. Have you changed it all, or is anything are you more grateful for anything, or have you I'm more grateful for every every single thing?

SPEAKER_05 48:36

Every breath, every breath I take and every every experience. I I really couldn't pick one thing, and my my gratitude for life is I'm Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 48:46

I feel like for me, I'm usually in a crazy positive person anyway, but more so when I now see or hear people but and then hopefully change their perspective. Um thankfully, people have said, you know, you made me think differently, and I'm grateful for that. So it's not everything that we've been through has just really I think I think it does come down to gratitude. Like we are just more thankful for everything that we have now.

SPEAKER_05 49:16

Yeah, so putting out positivity, like I've always been a good tipper, and like I I tip more than I sh can afford, honestly, now because I think it goes back to I think the way we make people feel in this world, it just it's so important.

SPEAKER_01 49:30

Yeah, I think just being more and more grateful, and a lot of times it's like, how can we be more grateful? But there's always a little room to be more grateful.

SPEAKER_04 49:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 49:38

I love that answer, and I I'd agree. Even when things are annoying or frustrating, right? It's almost like you snap out of it sooner. There is this gratefulness for the opportunity to even be frustrated. Yeah. It's gratefulness to be present. Yeah. Yep. I think what the two of you are doing and have done throughout your journey, which will continue in grief and gratitude, is really beautiful, meaningful, and necessary for those who get to hear you and experience, know your podcast and and just knowing you. So thank you so much. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you guys so much. Thank you. All right.