Episode 14- Matt and Monica

Matt and Monica from The Matt and Monica Podcast join us in this powerful interview that shares the raw and emotional journey of a family navigating the devastating loss of children in a car accident, overcoming adversity, and finding hope through faith, forgiveness, and resilience. Matt and Monica discuss the importance of vulnerability, the healing power of faith, and the impact of their story on others facing similar challenges.

Stayed tuned for Part II...

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Welcome, welcome everyone. We are here today with Crystal, of course. Hello. And we have Matt and Monica here. Matt and Monica actually have their own podcast called the Matt and Monica Podcast. And we met them through social media. So I'm just going to hand it over to them and they can tell you about themselves and we will go from there.

SPEAKER_01 0:24

Yeah, first I just want to say say thank you for having us on. It's really awesome to meet you guys and just to be a part of this.

SPEAKER_05 0:30

Yeah, thank you. I appreciate it. And I figure I'll let you introduce yourself first.

SPEAKER_01 0:34

Okay, I'm Monica. And um my I'll just like say a little bit of my story, you know, from like when I was younger, um, just to get a little idea of like who I am. Um I grew up in a really, really small town. It was a really nice little town on K through 12th, very small school. Um, we're all friends and I had a pretty good childhood. My parents were divorced when I was, I think about like four years old. And I was a cheerleader and I was a dancer. I did jazz, half and ballet when I was little. So I wasn't like a huge sports person, but dance was like huge for me. When I, you know, was out of high school, I went to college for about a year. And long story short, uh back in 2003-ish, I got with my ex and had a seven-year span of a very deep and hard abusive relationship. Uh, and there was addiction involved. And in 2009, I escaped pretty much for my life with my two kids that were about three and four years old and never looked back. And of course, ups and downs. Um, I've been clean since 2009, so I like to celebrate that and let people know that if if I can go through that and be strong, that they can too. I've had a long time to heal and grow and learn and make mistakes and grow from my mistakes and stuff. And I don't know, it's like a little smidgen of a very small smidgen of my like upbringing and the hard things that I've been through so far.

SPEAKER_05 2:00

So I guess I'll lead off of that. Um so I uh grew up also had a pretty normal childhood. I say normal, it really was in the grand scheme of things compared to a lot of people. But I I it's kind of relevant. I was uh I got married young. I was with Mac's wife since we were high school sweethearts and stuff. And from when I was 14 up until I was 27, had a pretty decent relationship, ended up getting divorced at 27 though, and was kind of lost, ended up with three kids together. And at the time they were six months, five, and seven. And um, that was that was my first like adversity because my parents are still together to this day, never experienced that. It was a challenge. And um, I had a couple years in law enforcement as far as employment goes, so I had that experience and I went into the military, which was completely random. Which, if anybody knew me any better, I'm a pretty random person. I don't put a lot of thought into pretty big decisions a lot. I just kind of lean into it. And I joined the Army Reserve, did eight years in the reserves while starting a career in IT at a casino, and uh and I I now work full-time as a cybersecurity engineer, and uh, because of adversity and going through a very difficult uh custody battle for the last couple of years up until last year, I decided, or we decided, like, hey, let's let's talk about life.

SPEAKER_01 3:14

And we started this podcast, which initially was just about navigating what we were navigating, not really talking about that per se, but we just we started off like talking about our relationship, and our relationship is very like like we love each other so much, we're each other's best friends, we want to be together all the time, we're like that annoying couple, and sometimes people like look up to that and they're like, wow, you guys have such a good relationship, like how is it so good? But in the beginning of our relationship, it was kind of rocky, and so people could relate to us more when we were very real and open about having the rocky parts in our relationship and how we got over it.

SPEAKER_05 3:48

Yeah, we believe vulnerability is strength, which is not always easy to lean into that.

SPEAKER_02 3:53

That's really helpful. I actually didn't know much at all. And I think Monica knowing your history too, and to speak to recovery, majority of clients I work with in my day job in my field is are experiencing recovery, and it's really about bridging those who are homeless and incarcerated to treatment. Hearing stories like yours are it's it's really powerful, right? To know that you can move through it and meet someone and have a healthy relationship and build together.

SPEAKER_01 4:25

So if you have I haven't really said a lot in detail at all about my past. Um I'm very open about it, but on social media so far I haven't really said much. But I have this huge urge and calling to really talk about it, hopefully sometime soon, because people do need to know that they can have a life that they want and that they're worthy of a happy life, no matter what they've done in the past. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_02 4:49

So thank you for sharing that. Um and Matt, my goodness, uh, military and then the IT casino thing that got me right there. You did it all. And I think speaking to separation, right? Getting married young and then separating young 27 um to kind of to start again can be really challenging.

SPEAKER_05 5:12

Yeah, that's that's definitely challenging when you have your entire life kind of ripped out from underneath you and then moving back into mom and dad's basement, you know, you that's love the sound of that.

SPEAKER_02 5:21

Well, it's I think when we're younger, right, our teens, twenties, it's like we think we know and it you think it's planned out and you lean into that plan and then you s you start again.

unknown 5:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 5:35

So from from here, Matt, does it make sense for you to begin your story of loss?

SPEAKER_05 5:40

Yeah. Um, so I kind of have to back up to the adversity of the custody battle, because that's that plays a huge role in all of this because and help help lead me with this when I and when I lose my track. But um, so we we had a pretty civil relationship relatively in comparison to a lot of people for many, many years. Things took a negative turn, just the circumstances changed, and it's hard to really dive into that because we don't, you know, I don't want to come across like I'm bashing or anything like that. So I try to tiptoe around that. But things weren't good. And when I say they weren't good, I don't know what was more net more difficult to navigate the custody battle of two years of dealing with family core and you name it, or losing my kids. And um there's a lot of people that hear that and be like, wait, what? Like, how could anything be worse than losing your kids? And I'm not saying it's worse, but it's just it's a very different kind of adversity. And when you're dealing with adversity that is completely preventable, when I say that, you know, it's it's the writing's on the wall of what's going on and nobody's helping, it's just so inherently flawed and frustrating. You know, you feel helpless. And I've never experienced that before. I I guess I didn't realize until I had to deal with it firsthand of how how flawed things could be. That being said, at the beginning of oh man, uh my my years are all kind of blending in, but so about two years ago. So we were we were a little bit into starting a podcast, kind of at wit's end with life, just not knowing really what to do. We started going to church, and uh, you know, that's heavily relevant to our story as well because of the adversity, we started going to church, kind of just like grasping at straws at this point. And um, I remember saying to my son, my youngest, he would have been 10 or 11 at the time, and I remember saying to him one night after we started going for a few Sundays, I'm like, you know, I I believe that going to church, just that positivity, it can help anybody. And I was really implying, like, you know, maybe, maybe he'll get his mom to maybe start going to church too. Cause, you know, I know we were at a point where we needed it. I'm sure she could use it. She was struggling. And uh lo and behold, she started going to church. The thing that caught us off guard was she started going to our church, and we're like, what the hell? That's not what we meant. And um, it was a tough pill to swallow. It was uh, you know, just because again, there was a lot of animosity there and a lot of just a bad situation. But uh, we kind of I remember coming home with her and saying to her, I'm like, you know what? Best case scenario, you know, maybe, maybe it helps her. And, you know, regardless of the animosity, best case scenario is everybody doing better, including her. And um, sure enough, as time went by, like she went from sitting on the opposite end of the church, and then you know, a few months later, she's sitting a little close to us, then she's sitting behind us, and it was it was it kind of got to a point where at the end of church we were we were kind of mingling with each other, even, which was with how bad things were. Again, you know, it was it was shocking.

SPEAKER_01 8:24

And so to give people a little perspective of the time though, that was over like about a year.

SPEAKER_05 8:29

About a year or so that that whole time was like, you know, she went to our church and stuff, and then getting closer and yeah, and like we would kind of stand in a circle with the kids and stuff, and we would even like kind of have small talk with each other around, and this is all well, like there's court still going on and stuff. So it was it was a lot. Um I go back to the power of forgiveness. It's something something I I've normally old me would say is kind of corny, but man, if you can if you can step outside the what has happened and just try to move forward and move past the the negativity, it's incredibly, incredibly helpful for everybody, especially kids, because man, people don't realize I never realize how hard a custody battle can be on the children. I mean, it sounds obvious, but it's people have no idea the implications that could have.

SPEAKER_02 9:13

Well, and you I do just want to speak to that. I know a majority of my work too, I'm in family and criminal court. So what what what you express and part of the work I do, it is to support people in navigating that process because unless you're in it and know it, you really don't get it. Um and myself going through one for over a year, from the money to the emotions to all of the things. I wanted to create something to almost like be for someone else what I needed because you can't quite verbalize it. It is you are in like fight or flight, and you feel like you're fighting for your life, you're fighting for your children's life, and you can't can't quite express it. So I think to speak to that and to add in the layer of church and a higher power and forgiveness and that whole workings is is really amazing that within that you were still able to, you know, put your ego aside and say, if this is good, right? Because if it's good for our child's other parent, right, it's good for them. And we know that deep down. Yep. So yeah, it's incredible that you did that. And I really commend you. I think it's a beautiful thing. Your your children were also able to observe that process.

SPEAKER_05 10:37

Yeah. Yeah. Um, you know, and I I think we got to so we're about a year and a half of this going on up until spring of last year, you know, we're going to the same church and stuff, and and this is this is actually very recent, whereas, so I'm trying not to confuse people here, but my my 12-year-old son has a cell phone where his calendar is synced with his mom's calendar for whatever reason. It's just been like that. She got him the phone for a couple years now. And um, about two weeks ago, there was a notification that came up on his phone that said, um, felt my presence with God, or I'm paraphrasing something to that effect felt the Holy Spirit for the first time. And this is two weeks ago. And um there's a lot of significance to that. And uh, and I also want to say I don't, even with our podcast, I don't push faith upon at all to anybody. I've we actually said when we first started our podcast, no religion, no politics. However, I've I've transitioned into saying, like, I'm gonna tell people what has worked for our family, because if we didn't have that element of faith, there's no way in hell uh we'd be here talking.

SPEAKER_04 11:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 11:42

I'm not saying I would have been suicidal, but I don't know where I'd be or we would be. But um, so let's get back to April of last year. Everything started getting better. When I say everything, I mean like with the custody situation, the co-parenting, because co-parenting for a while it was unheard of. It was your house, your rules, and it was just it was it sucked. Because when you're trying to parent kids that you have 50% of the time and you have different rules, and not being on the same page, it's just detrimental to the kids' development. And um, so April rolls around, everything's better, animosity's gone, co-parenting's happening. We're civil when we're talking, and you know, we go into May. At the end of May, we had a court hearing or something, and we got into the waiting room, and uh it was crazy.

SPEAKER_01 12:26

I will say it was almost like divine intervention with the atmosphere, and in the waiting room, normally it's pretty busy. It was just him, myself, and Natasha.

SPEAKER_05 12:37

And the court like guard or whatever that signs you in. So it's just us. We've been going for two years, and it was never the case like that ever. But and then she sits pretty, I think like two seats down from her instead of like on the other side or anything, and like we're just sitting there, and we've been in the same exact room so many other times where there's so much tension in the air. I mean, it was you know, not I hate fighting with anyone, so it was it was very difficult with me. But there ended up being a little bit of small talk, and then next thing you know, her and Monica and Natasha end up having a little bit of like small talk and laughing about the kids, and it was like again, this was unheard of, and it was it was great, it was healing. And um, so and it I think even the guard was like sitting there, she knew who she we were and seeing us in and out of there for a couple years. She I think she got up at one point, just walked away. Like, I'm gonna leave them alone.

SPEAKER_01 13:24

I think Natasha's lawyer took so long to go talk to her because he saw it and he's like, I'm not saying anything right now, like letting this play out.

SPEAKER_05 13:32

So when my attorney came over, I said something to him, I'm like, I'm like, hey, is there any way we can do mediation or something? Because that was the weird thing. We were two years in, nobody ever said anything, as far as the attorneys or the court or the judge anything about actually mediating and trying to resolve this. It was they kept kicking the can down the road like it was an I believe working as intended. I believe there's some sort of incentive behind that, but that's another podcast.

SPEAKER_02 13:55

But um it is another podcast I want to do. Let me just say that. Yes.

SPEAKER_05 13:59

I would love to.

SPEAKER_02 14:02

Um but um it's a whole like it it's a it's a whole thing, but I think, yeah, it's pretty amazing in family court. I always say the crossover of family court, the feeling of family court and criminal court sometimes feels so similar to me, and it absolutely should not, and where mediation um and support should be involved, right? I don't see that happen enough or soon enough, and instead you really see the parents and then it also impacting the children in such a way. Yeah. So yeah, thank you, thank you for pointing that out. I will keep that in mind.

SPEAKER_05 14:38

So um, yeah, I I pitched it to my attorney and he uh he's like, Yeah, let me talk to her attorney. And like within a few minutes he comes out, he's like, Yeah, he's like, Um, we're gonna postpone the court date. And um, I think it was like a week later or something. They never called us. My attorney never said anything. We get a letter in the mail, like, our hands are what washed clean of this situation. And I was just like, Wow, this is June of last year. And I remember in that time frame, it's funny. I I I still occasionally I'll go through my um social media messages to friends or people or people reaching out asking how we're doing. And I remember I said to other people, I said, Um, life is so good right now. Like all my worries, all my adversity, everything, everybody I love and care about is doing good. It's just things are so good. And uh things continued to get better from that point on as well, even between Natasha and us. To the extent in July, um, this this would have been the Friday before the accident that we experienced. The Friday before I picked up my daughter. Um, and that that's actually a major detail I left out. My daughter about two years ago decided she wanted to stay with mom full time. It was it was devastating for me, but it's when you have no co-parenting and um she was she had more free roam to say the least at mom's house, and we don't have a strict home by any means, but I tell my kids, hey, like you're gonna do whatever you're gonna do outside of our home. However, don't bring shit into our house. No, no vapes, none of that shit. Like, I hope I raised you to do the right thing. You know, I lost my sister to an overdose in 2020, so like we are our family was already exposed to the direction of you know where things can go. And um, so I'm trying not to go all over the place. So going back to the Friday before the accident, I actually picked up my daughter and my two boys from their mom's house on a Friday. And again, we did 50-50 custody, and uh, I took her out to dinner with my boys, and we had a beautiful night, unforgettable night. That Sunday morning we went to church with my late son Tyler, my 16-year-old, and just her, I and Tyler, I think my son Bradley was at a friend's house. Kiley's never really went to church with us. Um she did one time, which was that was a blessing. So Sunday morning, and this was this was huge. Um, so we go into church, we sit down, myself, Tyler, and um Monica, and then in the other aisle, my ex-wife came into church late, and she sat in the aisle next to us. She never sat with us, she's sat in kind of close to us or whatever. But for whatever reason, we felt compelled to ask her if she wanted to sit with us, and she did. She did. She came over and she sat on the other side of my son, Tyler, and it was it was probably one of, if not the most powerful moment of my entire life. And here this was before the you know most tragic loss of my life. July 17th, and this is this is the day that I'll um never forget. I was at my desk, and before I got that phone call, I got a text message from my 12-year-old son Bradley. It was a picture of a Porsche. He loves cars, and um, this is probably like three o'clock in the afternoon or so, and um he was going camping with his mom, his brother, and his sister, and some family members. And I completely forgot about it. When my kids are on mom's time, I generally have enough to keep track of. I don't really know what my kids are doing. But uh needless to say, he was uh riding in a vehicle with his Aunt Jen, which was um in front of his mom, my son, and my daughter, and three dogs. And about an hour after I got that text message of that car, I get a phone call from him, and he knew I was at work, and this would have been about 4.15 on the Thursday afternoon, and I answer my phone and Bradley says, Dad, he's like, There's an accident, it's so bad. You know, he was frantic. He's like, Oh, they can't get mom out of the car. And at this point, I didn't even know my kids were in the car. I I just didn't occur to me. And I I said to him, I'll never forget it because I was looking back, very, very impressed with just his maturity. And I uh I told him, Listen, I can't really understand you. You gotta take three deep breaths and then talk to me. And he did. He had to hear him take three slow deep breaths. I was like, Dad, there's an accent, it's really bad, they can't get mom out of the car. Okay, I'm like, where are you? And he's like, I don't know. And I'm like, Well, I need you to open up your Google Maps and um take a screenshot and send it to me. And I ended up figuring out a generalized idea of where he was, and I end up calling her with my work phone, putting it on speakerphone, telling her there's an accent, I don't know what's going on. Um, just I'll let you listen in. But I'm jumping in my truck, still on the phone with Bradley, have her on speakerphone, and it was an hour and 15 minutes away from where I was working, and I'm driving to that location. As I'm driving, I get these text notifications from my daughter's cell phone that there's crash-detected SOS or whatever. You know, got like six of them all at once. And as I was driving, I'm talking to my son, trying to, you know, keep him calm and stuff, and I'm, you know, and like I think, if I recall correctly, he brought up or we brought up something that he wanted to pray, and like we did, and I'm driving. I mean I'm my composure was like, I was alright, I was I was doing okay, and I'm just thinking to myself, I'm like, it's probably worse than what he's saying. You know, he's 12. And um, you know, continue driving, then I he's like, Dad, there's a helicopter landing. And I'm like, okay, that that's never good if there's a helicopter involved in a motor vehicle accident. And I think I don't know what time frame it was or in what order this happened, but at that point I realized it was bad, and then I I think I asked about who else was anyone else in the car, and that's when he told me Kylie and Tyler were in the car. And um unfortunately, I I realized at that point it was serious. So uh at this point, I was getting closer to the intersection and uh drive up to this scene. Um, it was like a movie. It was I was about a hundred yards away from where I saw the EMS and stuff, and as I get out of my truck, I started jogging towards like where where it looked like on the vehicle would have been staged where my son was, because that's all I cared about was getting to where Bradley was. And uh as I'm jogging to it, I hear screaming from my um Mac sister-in-law, just screaming, just morbid scream. And I hear screaming my name, Matt, they're gone, they're gone. And I'm like, I at this point I didn't know who who they are, but I ended up uh I grabbed uh I go to the vehicle where my son Bradley was and I picked him up and hold him in my arms, and um the cop kind of told me at the same time that uh that my son Tyler, he didn't make it and Natasha didn't make it. And um at this exact moment, just like a movie, it went from not raining to just downpouring. Like it it was almost surreal on how how like the when it started raining, the timing of the rain. And something I I definitely want to get to also. When I was standing there, there was there was a look on a police officer's face that cut through me, you know, to this day. I that's just one of the things of the scene of the accent that I can just remember, just a look on this young guy's face. And um, so I saw Sheriff Carpinelli, he's the head of the sheriff's department there, and um, he gives me a hug and he's like, Is there anything I can do for you? And I'm just like, just please pray for our family. And um, so my daughter at this point was being airlifted to upstate hospital. Um, I didn't know the extent of her injuries at all. I had I kind of was just floored and didn't know what was going on. So um I end up getting in the back of my truck, the backseat of my own truck, because it started pouring rain, and um Bradley got into the front the front passenger seat, and this lady that she was from a a traumatic loss, like nonprofit, where they I believe their job is to show up to bad scenes like that to just try to help out kids or anybody that's involved, and maybe even parents too. And this lady gets into the back of my truck, and this is three to five minutes after we were just told my ex wife and my son didn't make. it and like this lady's in the backseat of my truck with me handing me like coloring books for Bradley and a stuffed animal and um and she was she was nervous as hell like I and I felt I felt bad I felt bad for her and Bradley is taking the stuffed animal he's taking this stuff that he didn't give a shit about at the time but he he still cared for her and like you know and I were just like we didn't even know what just happened definitely in shock so we didn't hang out there much longer. I had one goal at this point was to get to the hospital where my daughter was and well to pick her up first but so we end up getting in into my truck. So we're pulling away from the scene of the accident I don't even know if she was on speakerphone at this point. I don't think she was but we're pulling away from the accident and it you could still see the EMS behind us and stuff. We were just driving you know maybe a couple hundred yards away and uh my son Bradley reaches over and grabs my hand and he's like Dad I promise we're gonna be happy again. It's uh like you know and at this point we were like we had tears coming down her face but we were like in shock. We weren't like sobbing crying we had no idea the extent of like the loss that we just endured. And um end up driving um to pick her up me so people that driving to pick up Monica from the house drove to upstate hospital and a ton of people met us there and um and like the the whole night was kind of a blur asides for like being at the hospital was a blur. I remember getting home that night though it's like you know because we we didn't spend the night at the hospital there really I mean my daughter was completely um sedated I mean she was stated for three weeks but uh we ended up going home and I do remember walking in the house and you know so Bradley shared a bedroom with with Tyler and uh he asked me if he can sleep with us tonight. Yes absolutely and uh like people have just just no idea I mean maybe some people obviously on a podcast like this they could relate to this but like here we are going through that extreme amount of loss and we couldn't even really grieve. We were still praying for my daughter who's in the hospital and uh you know looking around and it's little things like seeing my son's toothbrush sitting there or looking in the backyard seeing the trampoline that they would play on and it's like yeah like what happened?

SPEAKER_01 24:04

This can't be real and it's almost like in your mind you're waiting for someone to call and be like or wake you up. Yeah or just to like be like they're fine. You know maybe they're hurt or something but they're fine. But knowing the reality of it it's like it almost puts you in a very strange state of mind though because you're waiting for something that's not gonna happen.

SPEAKER_02 24:25

Yeah yeah I will uh I'll give you a second crystal if you want to dig it out definitely please and this occurred how long ago?

SPEAKER_05 24:35

This is July 17th of 2025 so eight eight months or so.

SPEAKER_02 24:39

Wow yeah so I'm just trying to even for me to hear it right it's it's so shocking to imagine and and think through right even with my own experiences what you describe for anyone who has experienced shock and loss like that your brain brain is not made or equipped to take it in to process it and for it to be real and for quite some time. Yeah right I think it goes both ways where it's like you want someone to wake you up and then when you sleep and you wake up you have to remember again because our brain just doesn't cannot fathom the layers of loss. When you speak of Bradley he's how old now yes that that's um he's 12 he's 12.

SPEAKER_01 25:34

So he had just turned 12 um July 13th yeah a couple days prior.

SPEAKER_02 25:39

Right just amazing when you speak to right like the I don't know if pride's the word but to to see your son step into the role he was forced to step into right to be there and to work about me and comfort me. The woman right trying to be you know the stuffed animal and the coloring book and all the things you'd still those were character characteristics that were provided to him by you and right his mom and I'm sure you monica how sweet that empathy was still right now wanting to hurt feelings. Right. And also for him to come home and to have this shared room with his brother and the loss right all of the things us as adults experience extreme loss and we have a right developed brain for such a young human to have experienced that and it's amazing. Right. He now so he's 12. I mean he's a baby I can't I can't you know my kids are 16 and one's almost 11 but to wrap my head around that and the loss and everything you experience together.

SPEAKER_05 26:54

Yeah. And some uh little two details I think I neglected to mention was um he was again he was in the vehicle in front of the accident so they heard they heard the smash they heard the screeching tires and whatnot. And um there were also three dogs in the car. So not only did he lose his mom, his brother his sister, he lost his three dogs and uh before they left for this trip he told me that uh Tyler Natasha asked him to ride with his Aunt Jen because the three dogs were in the car there wasn't a lot of room so it's like thank God that those dogs were in that car. Not that anybody wants dogs to die. And uh it's just it's just strange. You know and I I try to lean into like trusting in God's plan and sometimes I'm better at that than others. But um you know this has been this has been a journey and it's like you know we of course I threw it into you know we all know AI is a big thing now and it's like I threw it into AI what are the odds of losing three immediate family members in a in a car crash involving a tractor trailer and it's like one in 2.5 billion you have better you have a better chance getting struck by lightning twice. And here we are the husband and wife couple that talks about adversity gets put to the test with something like this.

SPEAKER_01 28:04

And it's like I have no choice other than to think to myself like hey like this is this is part of the plan right it's our job to create a ripple effect of hopefully comfort to other people I yeah I wanted to throw in there too just to get perspective of like when he was on like he left his work when Bradley called him and he was like over an hour away like he he calls me and puts me on speaker phone so I'm on the phone listening to everything and not able to do anything. And I was like do I go do I try to go there or like what do I do? I have two daughters one's 18 and one's 20. So my youngest was at the house with me. So I'm like you know I told her what happened and I'm like I'm not sure what we're supposed to do. So immediately I'm like texting a couple people I'm like we need prayers like right now you know and a couple people showed up and yeah so like being on the other side like I didn't really know what to do.

SPEAKER_02 28:58

You and yeah you're an observer and it's like slow motion I feel like right and you're just waiting and there's no set answer. Um I did want to speak to Matt a few things just around religion I know and and I get it for so many people within who have all different beliefs and beliefs can also change and and faith can change um and our journey and our relationship to faith can change. But Mandy and I have spoken of this a lot. I believe where yes that we can you know in some environments there can be no religion or no politics it also is a beautiful thing that the person who does have a belief that we never deny that belief. Yes because that is also our connection to our faith right and it's not forcing it or placing it but it is celebrating in that belief. I'd also say when you when you said like sometimes are like this there must be must be end there must be a must be end here and here.

SPEAKER_05 30:07

Yeah and I guess at at that point you know when we came home from the hospital you know going that that was that was a hard night for sure but um then then again you go to these moments on the outside looking in that nobody knows exist. Like it's like okay what do you do outside of going to the hospital to visit my daughter who's in the ICU what do you do on the day to day? Because that's when you make the choice can you drown away the pain and suffering with alcohol? Absolutely and I would think most people would have approved of that I say approved I mean that kind of subjectively but but instead of going down a route where it's drugs, alcohol, you name it, I decided to go running and um in um I heard this quote it was from Admiral McRaven it was um in order to change the world you must be your very best in your darkest moments. And that meant a lot to me way before the accident that meant a lot to me while I was navigating other things. And of course I thought of that and for whatever reason I'm like you know what I I posted that on social media and I went out for a run and um and like people I I think I might have posted something of like of myself out running people knowing what we just went through on they didn't like that. Like and when I say they is just pretty much like some of my best friends because they have this they have this expectation of grief whereas you just lost your kids you got to be broken and I was like nobody knew I was if I was running crying my eyes out trying to breathe and um it's it's what I chose as my outlet and I I really pushed for that. And now I'm like hindsight 2020 I'm like man thank God because I don't know what my options could have been outside of you know yes praying yes just yes leaning on her like thank god I have her I I don't know where I'd be without her and uh but um so again my daughter she was in the ICU for three weeks and you know I went there you know a few times a week three or four days a week but I wasn't there every single day and every time we went there man I felt like seeing my daughter like that was like a piece of me was dying and even my my son my 12 year old like he he's like dad he's like I really don't want to go today and I'm like all right let's go do something let's go for a bike ride and you know there were people that judge that they you know they say oh he's out having fun while his daughter's in the ICU and I'm just like all right all right smart guy what would you do?

SPEAKER_00 32:24

How would you navigate that in that's what I was gonna say is when other people have lost children and you haven't yet can't imagine what they're going through. I could never do that. I could never live through that and then you go through it and you're like but I have to I have to do something I can't cry in in bed all the time like I have to try to do some sort of normal thing to just you know especially when you have other children. You can't just lay in bed all day and you have to you know there's going to be a point where you are not normal but you are going to have some sort of normalcy in life and so you just have to push for that. And I guess before I lost a child I was the same way I can't what are they doing? I can't imagine doing that. They just lost a kid but once it happens to you then you realize wow like how strong they are for doing that right yeah that's the thing and there's a lot of people that would be offended from this mindset but it's I think so much is a choice.

SPEAKER_05 33:32

I think how you navigate things and I think I think even grief within itself a lot of it I think is a choice. Could I sit around be broken and feel bad for myself? I feel bad for myself all the time still I mean this week was for whatever reason incredibly challenging and uh but it's also a choice to get your ass up just do something because what example of what good is that going to do sitting on my ass feeling bad for myself for my son. What does that show him? And because I think I said to him this is a day or two after the accident I sat him down I'm like listen dude I'm like this is going to go one of two ways and it's our choice. Like this is going to make us or break us and what I mean by that is if you can navigate through this for the most part it doesn't really ever get worse than this. This is pretty much as bad as it gets so if we can get through this together like we're gonna be all right. And I think we I I think I was more of that mindset because of the adversity I was already put through which is kind of a a spin on my I guess irony. I don't know what else to call it but my ex-wife in theory got me to go to church by putting me through a lot and because I was going to church it got her into church and because we were going to church thank God we had the element of faith which I already did like I prayed and stuff prior to going but I was it was a little bit of a different level like how how ironic is that that like what I wanted to go away so bad could have been what saved me and helped me navigate and I say navigate like not past tense because we're still navigating. Like this is this is brutal.

SPEAKER_01 35:02

And like we said it's just so healing because not that there's any time that is okay for anything like this to happen but if it happened during the hardest couple years like that would have changed everything in a way. So just the timing of when that accident did happen.

SPEAKER_05 35:19

And the importance of Bradley seeing that healing and seeing things get better. I mean he's he right he saw his mom doing well before this happened. Yes exactly yeah yes so I'll just go back to you know that time frame that my daughter's in the ICU you know going to the hospital occasionally seeing her and um I've never experienced anything like that before. I never experienced being next to somebody I love and care about that's incapacitated and not conscious and literally just you can literally do nothing other than depend on the doctors and pray you know and I I thought for sure I thought we're gonna have a miraculous recovery and this is what this is something that gets to me where I feel a little guilty to this day that's it's never really going to go away because one of the things I said when things started getting rocky with my daughter where she started turning into that rebellious teenager when she was 14, I remember holding her on her bedroom floor in my arms and we were crying together. I remember saying I've never given up on you and um I had to make the decision to pull life support and um and I'm not saying I gave up on her and I I don't necessarily think that but however we've had people on our podcast that we've um Ari, you know, she this person went from severe brain damage, never going to be able to walk again, being told that by the doctors to on a dance floor in 30 days. And like I think to myself I'm like what if we didn't pull life support if there was that miraculous recovery. And I did get again this because I worked for a medical facility I knew a neurologist and I'm like hey would you mind talking to the neurologist it's that's saying like because they said there was there was again I'm speaking terms I don't really understand but there was shearing on the left mast, the the center mast the right mast the brain stem it was like it sounded bad as bad could be from my understanding as far as brain damage. And they said um you know best case scenario if she ever wakes up like won't she'll be a complete vegetable won't be able to talk or move or anything. So and if and if we did allow that to be the case my daughter would have she would have kicked my ass at wherever we end up after this life. And so yeah I had to I had to make that decision and um I was going into all of this not knowing you guys familiar with the term honor walk? So okay so I wasn't I'll explain it to you an honor walk so my daughter was a organ and for the listeners that hear this I took my daughter to get her permit when she was 16 and when I asked her if she wanted to be an organ donor I was like yeah what am I gonna do with them if something happens to me. So that was her mentality which is typical you know she liked she liked the idea of helping other people. And um so the day that they're gonna pull life support you know there's some stuff put out in social media um about this honor walk. Sure enough a lot of people from the the area we live showed up to the hospital they lined the halls and what we did is we played music for her and we walk her from the ICU while the music is playing down to the OR while they pull life support. And you know I the songs that played there's a story behind that that was difficult. You know so as Monica myself um her two aunts and Bradley and I and you know there's hundreds of people in the hallways you know and I'm just like I I'm like I don't even know what's going on at this point. It wasn't even real and uh I got to experience holding on to my daughter's hand and feeling the life leave her body and uh and um you know and I the best part of this I think of this loss and of going through this is what we're doing right here because I don't want sympathy. I don't want sympathy from anybody I don't want anybody to feel bad for us. But I what what I personally want and I think you guys are very similar mindset when it comes to this is for people to hear this and be like hey like we were able able to navigate I say through we're navigating through but we are able to go through this and still not only continue going but to make something of it whether it's a podcast or whatever the whatever you do because we had somebody on our show his name's Terry Tucker and uh Terry Tucker's he's a terminal cancer um hostage negotiator for the Cincinnati police department and this guy said something that I think everybody on this entire planet should keep in mind is you never have any idea how many people are watching how you handle your adversity and it's affecting so many people and if you don't have social media yeah maybe that reach is going to be a little less and which is fine but you're still gonna have friends and family that are going to watch you and there's people that know what you're going through. And in our case it's like I'd walk into the high school man like everybody, everybody everywhere I go you know we were the family that went through how you know this situation.

SPEAKER_01 39:46

And uh well it is strange because you think that happens to those people or happens to other people but when it happens to you you become those people and it's it's a very strange thing. But then you know you take a step back and try to be as positive as you can and keep going and that's what we're trying to do. Like you said we just want to show people that you can not dig yourself deeper in a dark hole. Like you're gonna have moments where you're devastated and bawling and crying and you know every little thing that you see might remind you of someone that you lost. The people that you lose don't want you to be sad. I don't believe they want you to be sad. And they want you to keep going.

SPEAKER_05 40:25

I think of that all the time with with I I I for whatever reason I like to picture my son Tyler talking shit to me when I'm really really broken. He absolutely would be broken.

SPEAKER_04 40:37

Right.

SPEAKER_05 40:38

Yep likewise as we're talking I'm listening to you and you when you're talking about your your granny I call my granny which is also an early 90s granny like therapy really for me I didn't I've been going to therapy for like three years and it's like I do it just to check it off I guess it doesn't really benefit me. I think conversations like this when you have the relatable experience it's infinitely more valuable. So I am even even right now I'm just thinking man I needed this I needed this conversation today. And um in some something else I just wanted to throw in because this is kind of a beautiful thing. So the junior class that my son was a part of so my son Tyler he's a big wrestler I say he was uh he's um all the things I don't really care for about myself I tried to fix in my kids um one of the one of the things I try to fix in my kids is confidence. I've always suffered wicked from confidence issues and imposter syndrome and Tyler I tried to build them up from a young age and that's why I put him in I told him pretty much made him join wrestling which transformed his confidence and loved it and uh they voted him to be the prom king this year. And uh they presented me the crown in January in front of the junior class. Initially they're gonna mail it to me unless he said unless you want to come in and pick it up and I'm like yeah would I be able to thank the class I asked the principal and he loved me too. And uh I'm ironically yes I can sit here and talk to people this I love doing but talking in front of a large group of people terrifies me. It's my big public speaking but I I asked to speak to the junior class of 130 plus kids and and I was I was nervous but I was more excited and I'm like just I'm picture myself knowing what we have been through and if I was sitting in that audience at that age I'm like man I could impact somebody where everybody's gonna go through hard times. Everybody's gonna hit rock bottom and and that was my message to the class I thanked them for everything obviously and I said to them I'm like you know everybody here is going to hit rock bottom at some point in their life I pointed to the principal the teachers and I'm like everyone you're not gonna avoid it. However if you can think back to your junior year of high school and think about this awkward person standing in front of you right now and that he was able to navigate that and make it through that then you have no excuse you have no excuse to treat people like shit. You have no excuse to go down a bad path whether it be drugs or alcohol and you have no excuse to give up and um I think I don't know I think there's many times in my life I would have benefited from hearing a similar you know message. Because it it was hard because it's hard to have uh have shared empathy for a situation like this with kids that are in high school however I presented it to them like you know I said I'm like you know that the worst thing that day that happened was not losing my son, my daughter my ex-wife the worst thing that happened was that somebody I love and care about lost his mom, his brother his sister and three dogs. And um you know a little bit of a perspective shift there that these kids can hopefully relate to or or empathize.

SPEAKER_04 43:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 43:23

One of the most detrimental things for me right off the bat that I think of that I hated more than anything was because I was it it took every ounce of strength and discipline because it's not motivation. I wasn't motivated right after losing my kids but I was getting out there and pushing myself to do something physically and it wasn't it wasn't obsessive it wasn't crazy but I would have people like reach out and be like you know maybe you should take a break maybe you should take it easy and stuff and I'm like that's not what I need to hear. Like if this is my medicine if this is what's keeping me going like the last thing I need to hear from anybody is that I may it just that irritated me to no end. Because then it made myself Conscious, like, are people thinking I'm crazy for am I doing the wrong thing? Should I be more broken than I am? And um because I I've joined a couple grief groups and stuff, and I listened to what other people say, what they're navigating and stuff. And I've I've thought that a lot. I'm like, am I like, am I supposed to look like that? Is that what grief is supposed to look like? Because these people are saying how they think. Like, there's people say I think about ending my life on a daily basis and all this other stuff, and and I'm I just I think people need to realize like there is no, there is zero guidance or real idea of how you're supposed to handle grief. Everybody processes it differently. And there's been so many people that feel like they can't talk to me, like whether it's friends or family, because they got stuff going on in their life that, yeah, if you compare it on paper, it may not be as bad. But like then what people do is they isolate away from you. And like I have so many people that don't talk to us at all anymore, so many friends, best friends that have just vanished out of my life. And I think a lot of it is just that. I think they they compare their adversity to our adversity, which you can't do. And they think they have like, how do I complain to this person about about X when they just lost their children? And that hurts me because it's like, man, like and I feel super alone and um, you know, outside of her and you know, in a in a lot of ways, but in the same sense, I do have a lot of people that we've a lot of relationships we've gained through navigating this to of people that are just incredible.

SPEAKER_00 45:25

Right. It was Dan. Dan said, I don't want to I want support. Um but I was also gonna say too, which I think is helpful and people don't understand, is that you wanna talk about your children. People are so scared to talk about and bring them up, but you wanna talk about them. You wanna know that they're mattered, you want to know that they remember, you know, this person remembers that time from them. And people are so scared to tiptoe around not bringing them up when it's like, no, the total opposite. I want you to talk about them. Right.

SPEAKER_01 46:00

Like we don't want to be treated differently or people to avoid us, and we don't want people to think that we're these victims of this tragedy. Like we want to continue to help people and we want people to come to us because it is therapeutic for them, but for us too. We we don't want things to change because of what's happened. Right. Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_04 46:21

Yep.

SPEAKER_01 46:22

Right. Yeah, right. And there's been times when people would like come up to me like pretty fresh after it and they're like, I'm so sorry and stuff. Like, how are you doing? And there was a moment where I was just like, and I had to walk away because I didn't want to start crying. And that and that's okay. Like, people need to know it's also okay if people are talking to you about anything, like you can get emotional, you don't have to hold it in. Though most of the time I feel like with everything that's gone on, like I am the rock and I'm the one that's like trying to keep it together to be strong for him and for Bradley and my two girls and stuff, the family. And I have my moments, but I'm I don't know if this is a good trade or not, but I'm usually pretty good at if my mind goes somewhere, I make it go somewhere else. So I don't get like that, you know. But I also do know, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 47:04

See, I do the same thing.

SPEAKER_01 47:06

Yeah, but I also do know how important it is to talk about it and to let your feelings out. So I have my moments, even though my moments are different from his or different from Bradley's and anyone else experienced, you know, this tragedy. But again, like we can't compare our our own feelings to any of this because it's all different. And talking about the comparison, my sister, it was like a month, I think, after the accident, my little sister, her house basically burned down and like lost everything. And so I'm like, do do like things come in threes? I do believe that. So I'm like, this is gotta this has gotta be it because this is like too much. And comparing loss of like someone that you love to things, like yes, like we lost people, but to her, that was the m hardest thing that she's been through in her life. Like she lost stuff and she's very she's like that sentimental, like journals and photos, she's a photographer. So for her losing her home, her ch children's home, that was her hardest thing. So I can't say just because she didn't lose people, that's not tragic too. Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_04 48:09

Right. Mm-hmm. Right. Mm-hmm. Right. Yes. Yeah. Yep. Right. Yep.

SPEAKER_05 48:16

I think um I talk about being grateful all the time. I I've I've heard from another podcast actually, a guy that quoted somebody saying on their deathbed, what do you want to be remembered as? And the guy said grateful. And um, I am grateful for everything. I am more grateful for her. I'm more grateful for obviously my my son, but I'm I'm grateful to be alive. I think it's I do think part of it is a choice. I choose to be that way because I could just as easily be bitter. I have every reason to be bitter, I I believe, but it doesn't do any good. Gratitude. Man, I think it's the best way to combat. I don't know if grief, because I think grief is incredibly important. I think it's valuable too. And it can be, it can use, it can be used as a tool, it could be the most important thing we go through. Who knows? But yeah, I I'm I'm just grateful. I'm grateful for meeting new people. I wouldn't I wouldn't be talking to you guys if we didn't navigate this. And it's like, I think it's that's a beautiful thing. Not to say, like, and I I tell people all the time, like we people say so many people have come to like, hey, like, thank you. You're so strong. I don't know how you do it, type of thing. And I'm like, I am broken as broken can be all very often. Um I cry all the time. I I I kind of I don't mind it. I almost I don't want to stop crying. I don't want to stop being emotional because I feel like the second I'm able to get away from that, maybe that means like my love for my kids is kind of fading, so it scares me.

SPEAKER_01 49:35

But yeah, I think I feel like um sometimes I have a fear of myself not giving away. I I want to see like the gift of like keep going. Like I want I'm afraid that I'm not gonna be able to get everything out to help people like enough. If that makes sense. Yes, yes. Yep, I agree with you a hundred percent. Thank you. Thanks.